August 2012 Open Thread

While the Summer Games are in full swing ‘cross the pond, it is time for another open thread.

  • There was much consternation in London over the creation of “Olympic lanes”–reserved lanes on major thoroughfares for Olympics VIPs. Many are being deactivated by city authorities due to under-use.
  • This the last month under the current fare scheme and schedule. The new fare system goes into effect on September 1, and the new schedule the day after that. Unexpired 1-2 zone tickets will require a 40c upgrade if used between September 1 and December 31, and will be no longer honored after that. Unused all-zone tickets will still be honored– expect a run on 30-day passes at the end of August. :)
  • Speaking of TriMet, they want you to know they posted record ridership in FY12, with 102 million riders, better than their best pre-recession year. Unfortunately, that doesn’t translate into record-high levels of service.
  • Since I’m busy linking to TriMet press releases, I should also mention that TriMet also got an additional $5M to buy new busses, allowing them to accelerate their replacement program.
  • Voters in metro Atlanta have turned down funding for a major expansion of the region’s public transit system.

94 responses to “August 2012 Open Thread”

  1. This video explains why airports (big birds) and restoring the environment (little birds) may not be such a good combination.. In the Pacific Northwest there are many areas that can be recovered for wildlife restoration. Perhaps areas right in the flight path of big jets (W. Hayden Island is one) maybe are not the greatest idea, especially when more waterfowl are encouraged. Please watch this video and see what you think:

  2. I get a kick when the Voices of Oremageddon rise, just because we happen to live in a seismically busy part of the world. A string of larger earthquakes off the Oregon Coast leave some worried about the safety of Oregon infrastructure:
    Notice that these generally take place off the Southern Oregon Coast a moderate distance out to sea. These are likely part of the Blanco Fracture Zone which is offshore from Bandon and Florence.

    The article accurately states:
    “The Southern Oregon coast faces the greatest risk. Between Florence and Cape Mendocino, Calif., the report predicts an earthquake between 8.1 and 8.3 magnitude in the next 50 years at about 40 percent.”

    But also warns:
    “An Oregon Department of Transportation report from 2009 states that many major roads, including Interstate 5, will be completely impassable following a megaquake because of damage like falling overpasses. As of 2009, 178 of Oregon’s 2,567 bridges had received a retrofit for seismic stability, but the Oregon Department of Transportation has no current funding for the program.”

    However, I think an emergency response strategy would be better than retrofitting most bridges. If the bridge is seriously deficient or cost effective to replace then the structure should be replaced. But damage from a major quake is hard to predict. So with limited resources, being able to get out quickly and repair the ones that actually suffer damage might be more cost effective than preparing for what never happens.

    And regarding the Portland area: Yes we do have potential for liquefaction and sit on some fault lines correlated with Mt. St. Helens. However a release of pressure in the 1000 mile long Cascadian subduction zone could occur far away from the Portland area and perhaps fifty miles or more off the coast line.

    Or there is a slim chance it could have an epicenter in Vernonia.

  3. Ron,

    The problem is that a 9.2 Cascadia Subduction Zone event would still be felt as a 7.5 in Portland, with shaking up to five minutes. Rest assured, an event centered 50 mi. off the coast would be very catastrophic for Portland and the Willamette Valley.

    The issue of retrofitting, whether it be bridges, buildings, etc., isn’t so much about having use of the bridge or building after the earthquake. Oftentimes, damage is simply too extensive to even retrofitted older structures. The reason you do it is to prevent collapse, therefore saving lives of of the people using that infrastructure when the quake hits. If, say, the Marquam were to collapse (its retrofit was designed to prevent a superstructure collapose, or the top deck falling on the bottom, but did not deal with the issue of column collapse causing the bridge to fall into the river)., there are a lot of people on that bridge at all times who are at risk.

    My wife’s aunt lives in Christchurch NZ where 30 seconds of shaking at 6.5 was disastrous. Belive me, the Cascadia event will be epically disastrous.

    We should do the best we can to get our infrastructure up to snuff. But excessive worrying isn’t going to help anyone. The important thing is to be prepared–have a supply of extra food, water, and medicine at home, and know your evacuation route on the coast. That is really all you can do individually.

  4. The NZ quake was within 30 miles of the city. Did CCNZ have poorly reinforced masonry? Just wondering. A Subduction quake off Cannon Beach would have big effects in Portland, but no on seems to know where the mass is hung up at along its 1200 mile length, nor too much about where previous subduction quakes have happened. The zone is from Mendocino up to the west coast of Vancouver Island. If the whole thing breaks loose at once…goodbye Hawaii! I do think there is time to think about it though :) so a cost effective strategy can be formulated. I think seismic upgrading should be done on a cost effective basis, and more time should buy a cheaper strategy. I have worked on a certain amount of seismic upgrades—-and half of mine were rather useless, in the light of later-to-be-found circumstances. I hope the bridge engineers do better than the architects, but my gut feeling is that damage is very unpredictable; we cannot fiscally do everything that could conceivably be prudent; and the economic fallout from what happens is even harder to predict. E.g. is there a great cry to make every overpass on I-5 earthquake proof, before other projects are done? What about all of the coastal structures in both Oregon and Washington?

  5. Goodbye Hawaii?

    The Hawaiian Islands are far too far from the Cascadia Subduction Zone to be affected by the seismic effects of a CSZ quake, even a megathrust one. The main risk to Hawaii is a trunami–back in the 1960s, a megathrust quake off of Chile caused a tsunami that greatly damaged the city of Hilo, and killed several dozens–but that’s far from “goodbye Hawaii”. The more recent Chilean megaquake did not produce a significant tsunami anywhere in the Hawaiian Islands.

    Generally, if a 9.x earthquake occurs, it will occur along the length of the fault (or a significant portion thereof), rather than being a point event. And the difference between a 9.x and an 8.x is the duration of the quake–above a certain magnitude, the earth stops shaking harder and starts shaking longer.

    In Japan, they actually design buildings to strict enough standards to keep the structure useable afterwards. US safety standards, as David notes, are designed to minimized loss of life, but not necessarily to minimize damage to structures.

  6. An article in Atlantic Cities about the patent troll that stalks US transit agencies (and others) which provide real-time arrival information to customers.

  7. Any of the plausible major earthquake scenarios provide ammunition to the bus side of our favorite-mode conflict.

    Let’s say we get a 6.8 at 3 AM on the Oatfield fault which runs perpendicularly through the west side of the Robertson tunnel, as well as across several Portland hills bus lines including the 35/36 on Highway 43, and downtown Milwaukie. If we get a tunnel collapse, all the MAX sets sitting in the yard will be restricted to operations between Sunset and Hillsboro. Those on the east side could service Washington Park, but most riders would need to take buses between Washington County and Portland. Where would all those buses come from? It would probably take a year or more to rebore the tunnel and reset the tracks. In Milwaukie, the last station or two on the MLR MAX might be isolated, but it wouldn’t be much of a trick to extend the feeder lines north to the next usable station, although it would involve adding a few buses to Clackamas County lines. The bus lines traversing the Portland hills might have to make long-term major detours, but most should be able to restore service in a day or two.

    The problem with a Cascadian quake wouldn’t be so much more damage to Portland, as much as that the damage would extend between northern California and BC. FEMA, the Red Cross, etc. would be stretched beyond all limits. MAX & streetcar wouldn’t exactly be top priority. Result: Call out the buses for a very long time. TriMet’s capability to run buses is limited, not just by the number it currently has, but by its ability to service and fuel them.

    The point is that as TriMet and PBOT shift away from a robust bus system into a very fragile rail system, our ability to quickly recover from a major quake becomes more and more questionable. We could provide gap-filling bus service to MAX/Streetcar riders, but only at the expense of major service disruptions on bus lines.

  8. “The main risk to Hawaii is a tsunami.”
    That’s what I meant. And I’m referring to the Ports getting flooded. We like to use short, graphic exaggeration in American sardonic wit, don’t we? The Oregon Coast would be battered, but maybe Hawaii even more since the wave(s) would have further to travel. but if this is a 400-500 year event, and there is a 1200 mile long line I’m not too worried.

    Oh, well……

    I hope you will put my article on quick. It will literally ignite a firestorm………

  9. R A,

    If you are concerned about getting around after the big one, you should buy a few bicycles. Busses will fare better than light rail, but they will likely be stuck behind debris, or will not have fuel to operate. A cargo bicycle is the ultimate disaster-mobile:

    Also, I would imagine that the steel bridge would be the weak link for MAX, rather than the tunnel. Modern tunnels typically fair pretty well in earthquakes.

  10. Bicycles still need flat terrain. I think in the worst disasters, you’re going to want to gallop instead of roll. For that reason in my earthquake kit I’m going to vacuum-seal a horse.

  11. This was brought to my attention by another site:

    Elsewhere in the country, a commuter rail line is reducing weekday fares to encourage higher ridership.

    Seems those along the route who might otherwise use it felt the old fares were too expensive.

    So it’s not just WES that’s underperforming and not just TriMet were fares are considered too high for the service rendered.

  12. WES fares are too high? It’s the same fare as any other all-zone TriMet ticket; after September 1 it will be the same fare as any single ride on TriMet.

    The cheapest fare on the Northstar line (like WES, a commuter rail line) is $3.75; fares can go up to $7 for an end-to-end trip.

    The limiting factor for WES probably isn’t the fare (which is dirt-cheap for the service and amenties offered), but the limited schedule–and the fact that quite a few of its stations are not exactly in transit-friendly neighborhoods. While I’m sure you are not suggesting this, Jason, it would be absurd to lower WES fares further to boost ridership, especially if bus and MAX fares are left where they are.

  13. WES fares are too high?
    I wasn’t talking about WES fares, I’m talking about TriMet fares in general starting next month. And I realized there was a typo; that sentence should read “…not just TriMet where fares are considered too high for the service rendered.”

    Is $2.50 really an appropriate fare for a ride on an old, dirty bus by a defunct manufacturer held together with string and duct tape with no air conditioning?

    (Yes, I realize new buses are supposed to be on the way. I’ll believe the claim when they reach revenue service.)

    The cheapest fare on the Northstar line (like WES, a commuter rail line) is $3.75; fares can go up to $7 for an end-to-end trip.
    The agency website page and news article state fares were lowered to a maximum of $6 and a minimum of $3.

    Nobody’s saying WES fares should be lower. At least I’m not.

  14. DEBT BOMB – The Global Financial Crisis Stripped Bare

    Now behind the prez…..were those the new Party bosses? I could obey….

  15. So this CRC thing is going to continue swallowing up millions of tax dollars.

    Wonderful, fantastic, I just love the way our government functions.

  16. Let us know how the small claims approach works. Thought about it myself a number of times, since the so called “officers of the court” (i.e. lawyers) will not take a case that isn’t political or vastly profitmaking. BTW, doesn’t that put them in the 1%, too. Don’t say much about it though; courts like to keep things confidential

  17. Reforming our civil justice system so that it produces reasonable reparations would have been a good project for the Lawyer-in-Chief, IMO. Thankfully many states have boosted the small claims limits. A court that efficiently heard cases in the 10-30k range would make sense. I have heard some European courts, such as in Germany, are more set up that way with advocates, instead of lawyers, in the smaller cases.

  18. KPMG and the Center for Automotive Research have jointly published a paper supporting the likelihood of major market penetration of self-driving vehicles in the next 10 years or so. The paper suggests that the most probable scenario involves a convergence of autonomous and V2X (vehicle to external environment digital communications) technologies.

    The link to the highly readable 36 page .pdf is at:

    FWIW, I think that the advances in autonomous technology are coming fast enough that the V2X costs won’t be justified by the benefits in the near future. The long-ballyhooed benefits of platooning, for example, are starting to show holes — pitting of windshields and other front-facing surfaces on following vehicles from debris kicked up by lead vehicles.

  19. What is it with the MegaBus company. I think a double decker intrastate bus system would be nice to have, so you could get to a camping and biking recreational area in Oregon without driving.
    But Mega Bus isn’t establishing a very good record:

    Perhaps it is simply because their service has become popular. But these incidents make them look bad. BTW, I have a video of a huge DD bus (in Europe I think) that had a lot of storage in the back end, where you wouldn’t want to be riding anyway.

  20. Does anyone know what happened with the SW 4th Ave Streetcar Realignment project? I rather thought that was a good idea. Is it dead or just on hiatus?

  21. Regarding the SW Corridor, I don’t buy into the “funding isn’t there, so a project won’t happen for decades” statement that “some” regional leaders are saying. You have to define the project and estimate the costs before you start putting together a funding package. There was no pot-of-gold sitting around waiting to be tapped for any of the previous projects (except perhaps the initial Banfield line, and the Airport line was funded by Bechtel), so to expect it for SW is unrealistic.

    Once the project is defined, and the SW regional partners make it a priority, the funding will come together.

  22. Remember that Metro dropped lightrail completely from its study of South Corridor options after the defeat of South/North in 1998. It was only after repeated demands from residents of SE Portland and, yes, Milwaukie, that the lightrail option was returned to the study mix. It then was clearly the best option, but still got sidetracked by the Clackamas county commission which wanted service to CTC first, hence the Green Line. Anyway, it will take the concerted efforts of SW Portland residents, Tigard, OHSU and others to get Metro to “find the money” and get it done in this corridor as well, whatever “it” is. Should be interesting. I recall the former TriMet long range planner telling me once during struggles to get Interstate MAX built that EVERY light rail project has been complex and politically difficult, the Banfield project included.

  23. WES does pass through that intersection; in fact, that’s where the WES spur to the Beaverton TC splits off from the Portland and Western line.

    (The tracks you see in the picture are freight-only; the WES tracks are just below the camera aperture).

  24. I think a double decker intrastate bus system would be nice to have, so you could get to a camping and biking recreational area in Oregon without driving.

    Lately I’ve been envisioning a Bolt Bus-like system that, among other routes, would depart Portland for The Dalles (or beyond) in the morning, stopping at such recreational hotspots as Angel’s Rest trailhead, Multnomah Falls and Cascade Locks in the morning, and then again during the evening return trip.

  25. BOLT BUS has been crashing in to things lately:

    Megabus to pay $5 million for 2010 fatal accident – Chicago Sun-Times

    No one injured in fiery Megabus crash in north Georgia; latest problem for Chicago company – The Washington Post

    Illinois Megabus crash: Bus made in 2011, inspected days ago –

    BoltBus Driver Texting While Driving – YouTube

    Chelsea Man Critical After Being Hit By Bolt Bus « CBS Boston

    Images for bolt bus crash

    BOLT bus and MEGA BUS are both operated by the same people

  26. The Oregonian continues its hard tack to the right, denouncing the fact that Multnomah County provides all its employees with TriMet passes as a waste of taxpayer money.

    Whether the Oregonian is starting to assume a hostile posture to public transit (something they’ve long supported in the past), or whether this is simply another attack on public employee compensation (it’s easier to go after fringe benefits than it is to call for outright pay cuts), I’m not sure.

    In related news, the Willamette Week reported last week that the Oregonian is seriously considering abandoning daily publication, and focusing more on the web. While the newspaper business as a whole has been going down the toilet in the Craigslist era, publication of a blatantly right-wing newspaper in the People’s Republic of Portlandia doesn’t strike me as a particularly promising business model.

  27. How the Oregonian became the only paper in Portland amazes me.

    It’s diametrically opposed to what most people in Portland believe.

    I hope it goes under, I ended my subscription long ago due to their virulent anti union propagandizing.

  28. It isn’t the only newspaper in town–there’s the Portland Tribune, the Portland Mercury, the Willamette Week, and many others.

    It’s the only general-purpose print daily newspaper, but how long will that distinction last?

  29. If the Oregonian plans on going to a web-only model they’ll need to hire an actual web designer first. I realize that the current website is actually a corporate model used by other papers in the chain but it is god-awful.

  30. Other than Joseph Rose’s column I won’t even bother going to anymore. It’s nice to find out I’m not the only one who is tired of the Oregonian.

  31. Oregonian is bad because the Democratic Party line isn’t carefully adhere to anymore? What’s the bottom line?

    al m. “It’s diametrically opposed to what most people in Portland believe.”

    Well, it is “The Oregonian” isn’t it, not the “Portlandia Papers.”

  32. I don’t recall the Oregonian ever adhering to a Democratic Party line–until Kerry and Obama (i.e. with the GOP running the likes of George W. Bush and Sarah Palin), it has endorsed Republican candidates for President since time immemorial. It even endorsed Dubya against Al Gore.

    If there is a valid complaint against the O historically–it’s very much an establishment newspaper. In state and local politics, that generally involves endorsing and supporting somewhat-left-of-center candidates.

  33. “I don’t recall the Oregonian ever adhering to a Democratic Party line–until Kerry and Obama (i.e. with the GOP running the likes of George W. Bush and Sarah Palin), it has endorsed Republican candidates for President since time immemorial. It even endorsed Dubya against Al Gore.”

    And what do individual endorsements mean? Not too much. But there are opposing views presented, true. I was thinking David Sarasohn nearly always presents a view close to the Democrats. So you get talk show people like LArson opposing those. Steve Duin is supposedly conservative, but not too much.

    Now that they are delivering it for free for three months I am enjoying it. Lot quicker than the Internet.

  34. This is a transportation issue.

    No, not really. It’s a disability fraud issue which relates to a public agency which happens to run transportation. Important for that agency and to those involved and the public in that region, but tangential at best as far as transportation as a topic is concerned.

  35. They still can’t add round trips between Seattle and Portland until the Point Defiance Bypass project completes. When they do get them in to service, I’ve heard of two alternatives:

    1. Break the trains up so they can add two cars to each Cascades train, increasing capacity.
    2. Use the extra equipment to have one alternate train for maintenance work and breakdowns, and the other to improve the scheduling on the Portland/Eugene runs.

  36. I used to bike around Portland, but then the bike was stolen. I never replaced it.
    2 Reasons why I don’t bike in my neighborhood.
    A-I don’t feel like dying of being crippled by some careless car driver.
    B-The weather sucks.

    But I find walking works just fine around NW Portland.

    Since I left Trimet I might have used my car 4 times, all for picking up things at Costco or Freddies etc.

  37. Al-

    There are some parts of town that are great for walking. The bike comes in handy when you want to

    a) get between them
    b) live slightly too far away from one to walk to it regularly.

    If feet work for you, then great. Options are nice.

  38. al m says “But I find walking works just fine around NW Portland.”

    And that’s the beauty of urban living! Now if I could just find a spot there that would allow me to construct my own home. Maybe I could build a penthouse on top of one of the highrises…….

  39. on top of one of the highrises

    Well I’d let you build one HERE! but the city regulations definitely would be too expensive to comply with. Heck I can’t even put on a new roof due to city regulations, imagine what a penthouse would cost?

  40. Not all biking infrastructure involves changes in road design. A lot of what makes a widespread system work is our own habits and processes, our social infrastructure. I was struck by this article on biking insurance:

    “What’s interesting here is how the [bike on bike accident resulting in a broken limb] was handled. The people in the accident looked at one another and went about their business, the tandem riders continuing on and my wife wending her way to the emergency room. That probably doesn’t sound unusual when two bikes collide. But no one thought about who was at fault.

    Contrast this with the aftermath of an auto accident: Everyone exchanges names and phone numbers. In most cases with injury, insurance companies get involved. Immediately after the cars smack into each other, everyone is thinking about who is liable and how damages will be paid for. Same way, had a car struck a bike.”

    Food for thought.

  41. ” Heck I can’t even put on a new roof due to city regulations, imagine what a penthouse would cost?”

    You can rent an air compressor and an air stapler (or a roof nailgun)and get your shingles from ShurWay for half price. That’s where I got mine twenty years ago, and after killing the moss, and sealing any loose tabs, I expect another ten years or so. That’s with 20 yr. seconds.

  42. And seizing tax-generating private land to build tax-free interstate freeways is not social engineering? Strange, because it would seem that most of the housing development since the 1950s has sprouted up near these interstates…

  43. The 50’s are not the 2000’s.

    It was a totally different era, government was totally different, there is no similarity between the two.

    (Chris I)

  44. Freeways are constantly expanding in the majority of the U.S. New ones are being planned and built all of the time. Nearly every county and city in the country has established rules on parking minimums and density limitations. All of these policies and actions affect the decisions of citizens every day. You can’t have government without social engineering at some level.

  45. The nub that I see is the disappearance of nearly any degree of self-sufficiency. There is no choice in a condo community except to buy from a corporate builder. With single family homes some people still build their own. Or they fix their own car, make their own brew, grow their own food or just conduct home based businesses. And a corporation always has vested interests in prolonging the need for its products or services. My experience with building contractors is they always feel they still don’t have enough. They whine.

    True, there may always be some social engineering. While a fan of urban density I disagree with the cast of the current form of it around here. It still causes a dependency on corporations and has some really screwy tax implications.

  46. I don’t remember the last time I actually saw a new freeway installed?

    I’ve seen some widened, but no brand new ones.

    Haven’t seen that since I was a kid in the 60’s

  47. There other part of this “transit oriented development” that I don’t like is the immense profit for the developers involved.

    Rural America always existed, the highways came in as a natural way to hook up rural America to the cities.

    It’s not the same at all.

  48. You don’t think that numerous diners, truck stops, trailer parks, towns, shopping malls, gas stations, hotels, motels, campgrounds, roadside attractions, pink boutiques, and swingin’ hot spots didn’t spring up as a result of the highway?

    While rural highway construction wasn’t built to create these places, landowners along highways got to enjoy huge windfalls.

    As far as new freeways; the last freeway on the Oregon side of the river to be completed was I-205 in the 1980s–although one might argue OR217, which still had signals on it for quite a while (and still has a signal if you want to go south-to-north at I-5).

    Cross the river, SR14 was recently turned from an expressway to a freeway, and SR500 is in the process of being converted to a full freeway all the way from I-5 to SR503.

    And while neither of these projects are fully funded, both the proposed Sunrise Corridor and Newberg/Dundee Bypass, if fully built out, would be freeways. If you’ve driven to Lincoln City recently, you probably noticed that OR18 is now essentially a freeway between Willamina and Grand Ronde. There’s also plans drawn (though not likely to happen any time soon) to make OR213 a freeway between I-205 and Clackamas Community College in Oregon City–the current jughandle project is arguably a step in that direction.

  49. The current Sellwood Bridge has a higher ratio of steel in it than any of the other truss style bridges crossing the Willamette. For example compare the Morrison Bridge, recently rebuilt with a lighter weight deck. The Morrison Br. has two trusses supporting SIX lanes. The Sellwood Br. has the same number of trusses supporting only TWO lanes. Plus, there is likely an excess of 1000 tons of unneeded concrete structural elements that could have been replaced with lighter materials, ala the Hawthorne Br. when it was upgraded with wider walkways.

    Of course, engineers and politicians often don’t understand basic things like this :(

  50. Ignoring politics, which is by its nature disagreeable, I’m a bit astounded: Engineers don’t understand how to do their job as well as you, Ron?

    There’s plenty of room to criticize the engineering profession for exceeding their pay grade: If you put highway engineers in charge of designing a transportation system, you’ll get a bunch of highways–but engineers are the wrong people to put in charge of what should be built (beyond ensuring that proposals are in fact buildable); their focus is and ought to be on figuring out how.

    But questions of “how to design a bridge to carry load X” are engineering questions, and I think the civil engineering community is more qualified than anyone in this forum answer those.

    A bit of free advice: Not all trusses are created alike, and simply counting the number thereof to guesstimate as to the load-bearing capacity of a truss bridge is not going to give you a Good Answer.

  51. Sorry. I get a little cranked out about the Sellwood bridge—especially when I realize that crossing this dang–erous thing could have been much more of an adrenaline rush over the last forty years! Or I could have been selling life jackets to pedestrians, maybe.

  52. In my inbox today:

    Help us improve passenger rail in Oregon
    ODOT is just beginning a study to improve passenger rail service between the Portland urban area and the Eugene- Springfield urban area. The study will help decide on a general passenger rail route and evaluate options for train frequency, trip time, and improving on-time performance.

    Attend an Open House this September
    The needs and concerns of Oregon citizens are a key driver of the Oregon Passenger Rail study. Six scoping open houses are being held in the study area to give you an opportunity to learn more about this project and to help identify issues and a range of passenger rail route alternatives. Your input is important to us!

    All meetings run from 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. Free child care will be provided.

    Salem – September 6, ODOT Transportation Building, Gail Achterman Conference Room355 Capitol St NE, Salem, OR 97301

    Oregon City – September 11, Clackamas Community College, Gregory Forum Room A, 19600 Molalla Ave, Oregon City, OR 97045

    Albany – September 12, Albany Public Library Meeting Room, 2450 14th Ave SE, Albany, OR 97322

    Lake Oswego/Tualatin – September 13, Phoenix Inn, 14905 Bangy Rd, Lake Oswego, OR 97035

    Portland – September 18, Metro Council Chambers , 600 NE Grand Ave, Portland, OR 97232

    Eugene/Springfield – September 19, Atrium Building, Lobby , 99 West 10th Ave, Eugene, OR 97401

    The project website is , and I’m simply providing the information here so others who might be interested can mark their public involvement calendars.

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