16 responses to “CRC Critique Continues: This Time in “Portland Monthly””
you know, if they are not careful, the CRC will end up with a strange redesign for the sole purpose of quelling the islanders who purport their only opposition to the CRC is the fact that they will not have a grocery store within 5 miles. I think it is completely ridiculous that they feel the only way to stop the CRC is on these auspicious grounds, as if Safeway was some little store that was unable to defend itself. Is this what it has come to?
It’s hard to take them serious when they complain it’s 5 miles to another supermarket, since it’s only 2.5 miles to the Fred Meyer next to Pearson Airfield. I imagine a lot of their other claims are exaggerated as well.
Well using Gmaps Pedometer, tracing front door to front door starting at Fred Meyer and using public roads, I get 3.1 miles, but point taken. :-)
Scotty makes a good point, too.
What’s the closest Oregon-side full service grocery? Is it the Fred Meyer on Lombard? (Gee, a local arterial bridge with a MAX extension would offer nearly front-door service to that Fred Meyer, but then again, would also spare the current Safeway from destruction, making the benefit rather moot.)
Washington sales tax does not include food last time I checked.
Also, since when was it required that proximity to full service grocery stores be maintained in perpetuity? Things change. One thing is certain, Hayden island is, and will continue to be a hellhole of traffic induced isolationism if this CRC happens.
Also, since when was it required that proximity to full service grocery stores be maintained in perpetuity?
Well, maybe not “required”, but if the city is serious about the whole “20 minute neighborhood” walkability thing, having at least one full-service grocery store in a community would be quite important. (It’s worth noting that today there are large neighborhoods, such as in outer SE Portland, without nearby grocery stores.)
That being said, it seems there’s plenty of space to build/expand in the Janzen Beach mall development, so relocation elsewhere on the island is not out of the question.
Hayden Island’s mistake was hitching their wagon to the big CRC dog, thinking that would solve their isolation. They should have bet on a local bridge with light rail, but as the prospects of a 22 lane freeway rears its lovely head, they are coming around.
Again…get the local traffic off I-5 onto an arterial bridge, offer commuters to jobs in N/NE PDX a real transit option, and give us a lovely promenande across the Columbia for pedestrians and bicyclists. Without the substandard On/off ramps and with some tolling, I-5’s bridges should be just fine for another century. Yes, and do a seismic retrofit and fix the RR bridge.
Of course, said Fred Meyer next to Pearson Airfield, being in Washington State, levies sales taxes–an issue for the low-income folks in question.
Show an Oregon ID and they don’t charge it. I’m 100% sure about that.
Well using Gmaps Pedometer, tracing front door to front door starting at Fred Meyer and using public roads, I get 3.1 miles, but point taken. :-)
Google’s driving directions were 2.5 miles each way (give/take .05 miles each way.)
FWIW, I get 3.16 miles, door to door, to the Lombard Freddy’s.
Again, way closer than the 5 they claimed. Why should I trust them if they have to mislead me about other topics?
I’m not saying the CRC plan is good for Jantzen Beach; I’m just sick of people lying to me to make a point. Make the point on its own merits, not on why someone can lie better than someone else.
“FWIW, I get 3.16 miles, door to door, to the Lombard Freddy’s.”
Which door on Hayden Island is that? If you are using Safeway’s door as the starting point, no one lives there. I would bet that 5 miles was just pulled out of someone’s head, not based on careful research. If its 3.16 miles from Safeway, then I would think its pretty close to five miles for some people.
If you just type in Hayden Island, Portland Oregon into Google maps and use that as the starting point, it gives a distance of 5.3 miles to Lombard and Interstate. Of course, that is from the center of the Island, where no one lives. Frankly, I think you are nit-picking.
Accusing people of “lying” to make a point is just way over the top. In fact, you owe them an apology.
“FWIW, I get 3.16 miles, door to door, to the Lombard Freddy’s.”
Which door on Hayden Island is that? If you are using Safeway’s door as the starting point, no one lives there. I would bet that 5 miles was just pulled out of someone’s head, not based on careful research. If its 3.16 miles from Safeway, then I would think its pretty close to five miles for some people.
If you just type in Hayden Island, Portland Oregon into Google maps and use that as the starting point, it gives a distance of 5.3 miles to Lombard and Interstate. Of course, that is from the center of the Island, where no one lives.
Accusing people of “lying” to make a point is just way over the top. In fact, you owe them an apology. Frankly, I think you are nit-picking. Whether 5 or 3 miles, it is not walkable or bikeable. For people who live in a community where a grocery store is a few blocks away, losing that convenience is a major blow. It may not be for people who drive miles for every errand.
Given the state of the grocery business, I think Safeway rebuilding is unlikely. These folks are raising absolutely legitimate questions about the burdens and benefits from the project. That would be true if it was a light rail project or a new park. The difference between taking vacant land and removing an important community service is significant. Apparently that significance isn’t immediately apparent to people who don’t live there. That’s why there is a public process.
16 responses to “CRC Critique Continues: This Time in “Portland Monthly””
you know, if they are not careful, the CRC will end up with a strange redesign for the sole purpose of quelling the islanders who purport their only opposition to the CRC is the fact that they will not have a grocery store within 5 miles. I think it is completely ridiculous that they feel the only way to stop the CRC is on these auspicious grounds, as if Safeway was some little store that was unable to defend itself. Is this what it has come to?
It’s hard to take them serious when they complain it’s 5 miles to another supermarket, since it’s only 2.5 miles to the Fred Meyer next to Pearson Airfield. I imagine a lot of their other claims are exaggerated as well.
Of course, said Fred Meyer next to Pearson Airfield, being in Washington State, levies sales taxes–an issue for the low-income folks in question.
Well using Gmaps Pedometer, tracing front door to front door starting at Fred Meyer and using public roads, I get 3.1 miles, but point taken. :-)
Scotty makes a good point, too.
What’s the closest Oregon-side full service grocery? Is it the Fred Meyer on Lombard? (Gee, a local arterial bridge with a MAX extension would offer nearly front-door service to that Fred Meyer, but then again, would also spare the current Safeway from destruction, making the benefit rather moot.)
FWIW, I get 3.16 miles, door to door, to the Lombard Freddy’s.
(And of course, major CRC proponents have never been off by such a percentage in making public justifications of the project, right? :-) )
I may be missing the point, but isn’t there still a nice big Safeway on the island, right by Hooters?
Concern is that said nice big Safeway will be demolished as part of CRC.
Of course, said Fred Meyer next to Pearson Airfield, being in Washington State, levies sales taxes–an issue for the low-income folks in question.
Oregon residents are exempt from paying Washington sales tax.
I wish more merchants were aware of that. It seems the further north you go, the less likely a merchant is to be convinced or have a procedure.
Washington sales tax does not include food last time I checked.
Also, since when was it required that proximity to full service grocery stores be maintained in perpetuity? Things change. One thing is certain, Hayden island is, and will continue to be a hellhole of traffic induced isolationism if this CRC happens.
Also, since when was it required that proximity to full service grocery stores be maintained in perpetuity?
Well, maybe not “required”, but if the city is serious about the whole “20 minute neighborhood” walkability thing, having at least one full-service grocery store in a community would be quite important. (It’s worth noting that today there are large neighborhoods, such as in outer SE Portland, without nearby grocery stores.)
That being said, it seems there’s plenty of space to build/expand in the Janzen Beach mall development, so relocation elsewhere on the island is not out of the question.
Hayden Island’s mistake was hitching their wagon to the big CRC dog, thinking that would solve their isolation. They should have bet on a local bridge with light rail, but as the prospects of a 22 lane freeway rears its lovely head, they are coming around.
Again…get the local traffic off I-5 onto an arterial bridge, offer commuters to jobs in N/NE PDX a real transit option, and give us a lovely promenande across the Columbia for pedestrians and bicyclists. Without the substandard On/off ramps and with some tolling, I-5’s bridges should be just fine for another century. Yes, and do a seismic retrofit and fix the RR bridge.
Of course, said Fred Meyer next to Pearson Airfield, being in Washington State, levies sales taxes–an issue for the low-income folks in question.
Show an Oregon ID and they don’t charge it. I’m 100% sure about that.
Well using Gmaps Pedometer, tracing front door to front door starting at Fred Meyer and using public roads, I get 3.1 miles, but point taken. :-)
Google’s driving directions were 2.5 miles each way (give/take .05 miles each way.)
FWIW, I get 3.16 miles, door to door, to the Lombard Freddy’s.
Again, way closer than the 5 they claimed. Why should I trust them if they have to mislead me about other topics?
I’m not saying the CRC plan is good for Jantzen Beach; I’m just sick of people lying to me to make a point. Make the point on its own merits, not on why someone can lie better than someone else.
Dave –
“FWIW, I get 3.16 miles, door to door, to the Lombard Freddy’s.”
Which door on Hayden Island is that? If you are using Safeway’s door as the starting point, no one lives there. I would bet that 5 miles was just pulled out of someone’s head, not based on careful research. If its 3.16 miles from Safeway, then I would think its pretty close to five miles for some people.
If you just type in Hayden Island, Portland Oregon into Google maps and use that as the starting point, it gives a distance of 5.3 miles to Lombard and Interstate. Of course, that is from the center of the Island, where no one lives. Frankly, I think you are nit-picking.
Accusing people of “lying” to make a point is just way over the top. In fact, you owe them an apology.
Dave –
“FWIW, I get 3.16 miles, door to door, to the Lombard Freddy’s.”
Which door on Hayden Island is that? If you are using Safeway’s door as the starting point, no one lives there. I would bet that 5 miles was just pulled out of someone’s head, not based on careful research. If its 3.16 miles from Safeway, then I would think its pretty close to five miles for some people.
If you just type in Hayden Island, Portland Oregon into Google maps and use that as the starting point, it gives a distance of 5.3 miles to Lombard and Interstate. Of course, that is from the center of the Island, where no one lives.
Accusing people of “lying” to make a point is just way over the top. In fact, you owe them an apology. Frankly, I think you are nit-picking. Whether 5 or 3 miles, it is not walkable or bikeable. For people who live in a community where a grocery store is a few blocks away, losing that convenience is a major blow. It may not be for people who drive miles for every errand.
Given the state of the grocery business, I think Safeway rebuilding is unlikely. These folks are raising absolutely legitimate questions about the burdens and benefits from the project. That would be true if it was a light rail project or a new park. The difference between taking vacant land and removing an important community service is significant. Apparently that significance isn’t immediately apparent to people who don’t live there. That’s why there is a public process.