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Above are two photos of the little signage frames that TriMet puts on bus stop poles when there is no shelter or other opportunity for larger signage.
In the first case, the frame is empty, although someone has helpfully scratched the Transit Tracker ID number onto the glass. In the other, there is an update route description (and stop ID number) but the the glass has grafitti.
I can imagine it’s difficult for TriMet to maintain info on thousands of poles. So why not have an ‘adopt-a-stop’ program and get community members to take on responsibility for maintaining some of these? All it would take is:
1) Sending the frame key to the volunteer
2) A web page where the volunteer can download a current PDF file of the correct info to print out
3) A database so that TriMet can e-mail the volunteer when the info for the stop has changed so they can update the display
I’ll bet that neighborhood associations and business associations would help recruit the volunteers.
Anyone at TriMet want to run with this? We’ll help promote it here at Portland Transport!
28 responses to “Can We Get a Little Help Here?”
I’ll volunteer to adopt the two bus stops closest to our house. One of them used to be on our property (yes, in practice, _on_ our property) but it got moved a block away last year.
A schedule frame would have been helpful, as it would have prevented late-night knocks at the door from folks wanting to know when the next bus was coming. (It wasn’t.)
Send it to Fred.
Last time I heard, 7 years ago, you could already adopt a stop. Anyway, TriMet, it’s the little things that make all the difference.
Heck, I’d do it for a few of the ones near where I live, even though I live on the bus-ignored westside so I imagine that’d be a low-priority area. It’s my understanding that even writing the stop ID is considered graffiti, which is kind of a shame considering all the stops that don’t have the ID listed and people who put it there are actually being helpful – including the stop for the #20 at Providence/St. Vincent hospital (where, yes, someone unofficially etched it into the bus shelter)
Well maybe if I “graffiti” the sign with the stopid then TriMet will come out and replace it — with a sign that has the stop id already on it.
Sounds like a win-win.
TriMet does have an adoption program for stops, however I’ve emailed customer service multiple times to get more information without ever receiving a response…
Hopefully you have better luck…
The Transit Riders Union has been discussing this very topic for the last few months, and talking about essentially the same solution. Jim Howell has also talked with us about his efforts in the early part of this decade regarding doing exactly the same thing. I’ll be sure to pass this on to the rest of the group.
IMO, the problem is furthered by TriMet continuing to remove the full-size bus schedule inserts from stops with shelters. Not everyone has, wants, or feels the need to pay for, a cell phone.
TRU just needs the volunteers to help post and update the information, especially bus schedule information. This is a solid example of TriMet not being concerned with the needs of bus riders – or – TriMet having a complete disconnect with their ridership base. TriMet changes bus schedules once a quarter, but Stop ID’s stay more consistent, give us a hand and post some of our stickers. TRU will ask TriMet to cover the costs of printing materials… keep in contact with us so you can show up at the board meeting when they “No, pay for Stop IDs and bus schedules yourself.”
Check out our website at transitridersunion.info for our next meeting.
I think in the future we won’t need bus stop poles anymore, they’ll all be digital and GPS based!
Hey Joe,
I wouldn’t mind joining a group like the TRU, however because we don’t see eye-to-eye on issues like Fareless Square, I don’t know how comfortable I would be at one of the meetings…
Are there any discussions going on about pressuring TriMet to modify their Zone payment system so that it makes sense for the many routes and trips not made to downtown?
Are there any discussions going on about pressuring TriMet to modify their Zone payment system so that it makes sense for the many routes and trips not made to downtown?
That seems to be a taboo subject! There are never any discussions around the issue of doing something about that ridiculous zone system they have in place here!
Not everyone has, wants, or feels the need to pay for, a cell phone.
I’ve been hearing that TRIMET won’t even have printed schedules anymore! They expect everybody to get it off the internet!
How’s that for catering to only the upper class people eh?
Transit equity? Where? Not around here that’s for sure!
And they have some sort of “director” who is supposed to be dealing with transit equity too!
I used to be a part of the Adopt-A-Stop program. It went through lots of changes a few years ago and basically cut folks adrift. Volunteers used to receive cleaning supplies and bus tickets. I took a look at the site now and couldn’t find any volunteer info – perhaps they axed the program…
From the horse’s mouth, as it were (individual responsible for the program):
None of my comments are official TriMet statements, and are purely my own.
Al: That seems to be a taboo subject! There are never any discussions around the issue of doing something about that ridiculous zone system they have in place here!
Al, there are plenty of discussions on the subject and on fare policy in general. I doubt you could find a single person in the agency that is a fan of the current system, but any solution will probably involve new methods of fare collection.
al: I’ve been hearing that TRIMET won’t even have printed schedules anymore! They expect everybody to get it off the internet!
Not true, Al. The quantity of schedules being printed has been dramatically cut over the last few years with very little complaint from customers. This has not only saved $$$ on printing and distribution costs but on what had been massive amounts of recycling. In the olden days, print runs had no real connection to use; the policy was to saturate the region with schedules regardless of whether or not they were being used. Hundreds of thousands of printed schedules literally never made it onto a rack much less into a customer’s hands.
We have to be a lot more efficient and a lot more cost-conscious these days–and it is also a fact that a lot of TriMet’s customers no longer need or want printed schedules but instead use the phone or the Internet to get their information (and consequently get more current information).
Well thank you for clearing some of this up Jeff F!
Don’t you think the schedules can be printed in a much simplified manner, requiring far less printing costs?
There has to be schedules in the pouches at all times. Nothing is more embarrassing than a passenger wanting to know stuff like:
“What time is the next bus?”
“What time is the last bus?”
and not be able to hand that person a schedule.
I actually have had to “horde” schedules for my route because they are seldom routinely put into the pouch, or if they are they get left on the last bus if the bus is a split.
We absolutely positively must have schedules available for all routes, make it cheap if need be!
Now as far as the fare zone, categories, etc, this is the first time I have heard anything like
I doubt you could find a single person in the agency that is a fan of the current system!
If there is not a single fan, then it mystifies me as to why its not changing???
You’re the managers around here, MAKE IT SO!
Print schedules make sense but the whole fold out sheet does not. A single card could provide most of the important info without the need for a big sheet;
And I too agree that the zone system is outdated and needs to go. It, like most of Trimet, is based on the (false) premise that everyone wants or needs to go downtown.
I propose a flat fare per ride based on regions, travel inside the region would be a even buck, travel outside and it would go up. No more fare free zones, and no more transfers. The regions would be based on population centers, not just downtown Portland. That way local trips would cost a buck regardless of what part of town your in, and long distance commuters would pay by distance.
Doubtful that this would ever happen, however, as the entire Trimet agency is designed to subsidize downtown Portland.
Al: Don’t you think the schedules can be printed in a much simplified manner, requiring far less printing costs?
Yes, I do, but such attempts have met with resistance in the past. The new frequency charts on MAX schedules along the Banfield haven’t caused a stink so maybe people are more open to the idea now. Still, we regularly get complaints from customers because the schedules (online and printed) don’t include ALL the stops.
If there is not a single fan, then it mystifies me as to why its not changing???
Because no one can just wave a magic twanger and change it. Distance-based fares make sense, but how do you make it work without the technology?
Speaking about frequency charts, I know that, for some lines, the schedule books use to just say something like “every 15 minutes between 10 AM and 3 PM”. Though it would be best if the exact times were standardized–the problem is that 15 minutes is still a long time a part, and if you’re trying to get somewhere by an exact time you don’t want to end up on a bus that gets there just a few minutes late.
Also, there’s been some complaints that the new pole displays (like seen in the second picture) don’t have schedules. I’m guessing this is because the exact times can change often, but what about putting basic rough frequency and time info, with a note to call for exact times?
Lastly, regarding the fare system, I think they should consider doing what they do in NYC–$2 a boarding with a one-use transfer, which would be put in the farebox or given to the operator on the next bus (or validated for MAX). The overall problem is what to base fares on while keeping things simple–time, number of boardings, zones passed through?
the entire Trimet agency is designed to subsidize downtown Portland.
The busiest route (72) does not go anywhere near downtown, and Westside MAX (between Beaverton and Hillsboro), WES and the Green Line along I-205 all benefit non-downtown oriented rides. In addition, it’s cheaper to travel if you are NOT going to/from the central city (Zone 1).
The bottom line is that a hub-and-spoke system provides the best service, and downtown Portland is the logical place for the hub. And for many trips (say SW to NE), going through downtown is the shortest path anyways.
because the schedules (online and printed) don’t include ALL the stops
Tell ’em to use the Trip Planner’s Stops & Stations thing.
BTW, I just realized that the info in the second picture is now incorrect–Line 17 no longer goes there on Sundays.
Distance-based fares make sense, but how do you make it work without the technology?
I don’t know Jeff! That’s your field of expertise!
There has to be schedules in the pouches at all times. Nothing is more embarrassing than a passenger wanting to know stuff like:
Al, you have my sympathy there. Today I could see some buses, but couldn’t read their ID’s from a block away. (Montgomery Park, 3 lines pause there about a block away from the stop.) The driver I asked was able to say a 15 should be behind him, but couldn’t give more details than that.
It’s nice to use the Streetcar, where Transit Tracker actually is marginally accurate. The times given when I call the TT phone number seem to be off by at least 5-10 minutes usually. The Streetcar seems like the only system where Transit Tracker works accurately.
I will once again say the drivers of TriMet are awesome. It’s nice when you find a driver who can suggest what route/transfers will get you where you need the fastest. The staff is at least as helpful as Transit Tracker, if not more so.
The current fare system is a total pain though. Without carrying my laptop it’s difficult to know if I’ll need a 2 or 3 zone pass, and even with prepaid passes you either waste money, don’t have 3 zones if you need them, or need to buy both. I’d love to see a $20 prepaid that gives me a card-fare needed, even if it’s not a next-year solution.
A distance-based card would cost money to implement, but I’d be much more likely to take a bus if I knew I’d only pay $.50 instead of $2 to go 10 blocks (for example.) I’d be fine with paying $5 to go from Downtown to CTC even. I rarely go that far in one trip, but when I do it’d be worth it if I didn’t need to dig up $2.30 (exact change only) to get there rather than a pass I could use regularly.
Dave H (and anyone else)
Please post the stop ID’s of the stops where Transit Tracker is off by 5-10 minutes. I am currently doing some research on where there are problem areas, with the view to providing better estimates between scheduled time points.
Although I am sifting through through the entire system, it would be very useful if customers could point out locations where the estimate is especially bad. I would also need to know the time of day, the route, and whether the problem is when the bus is close or when it is still a ways away. This could help point out what mechanisms are involved in bad Transit Tracker estimates.
Doug, most of the problems I’ve seen are near 23rd/Lovejoy, especially the 15 heading away from downtown. In my neighborhood it’s usually as a line is leaving downtown they get off the timing of the route.
Dave H,
Thanks for the input. TriMet’s Transit Tracker uses average speed between timepoints, so where bus speeds change a lot between timepoints, as in leaving downtown, the estimation can be off. We are looking into adding additional schedule control points that would be at points where average speed changes a lot. For example, stops at the corner of Philadelphia and Syracuse in St. Johns are at the transition on Line 17 between slow travel through St. Johns, and faster travel along St. Helens Road, but these are not currently defined as timing points.
I will try to take a detailed look at Line 15 data in the area you mention. If other folks know about particular problem areas, I would be pleased to hear about them.
Sorry this is slightly off the original topic, but I wanted to take advantage of what regular Transit Tracker users know. Thanks.
Chris,
Transit Riders Union represents a very diverse group of people, although we’re in the process now of streamlining a message that nearly every rider can appreciate, even if controversial. We’re working to be as welcoming to several points of view as possible, and if you have an opinion formulated from honest reasoning, then please share it with us!
I can understand not wanting to work with an organization on every single issue, but with something as ridiculous as this – where there’s an easy solution – we can pull collective resources and actually make transit just a little bit better.
Check out our website: transitridersunion.info
We want ORCA for Portland!
After all, if they can do it, involving 4 different systems, no reason why we can’t do it for Trimet and C-Tran.