They’re Back…


On Sunday, buses return to the Transit Mall! Details covered by both the Oregonian and Tribune.


44 responses to “They’re Back…”

  1. Yay!

    (I know I’ve been critical of things recently, however I will not be reminiscing any nostalgia for the buses on 3rd and 4th… bad traffic, opened on a day in 2007 where snow blanketed the city, spinning it into chaos, buses with layovers at stops they didn’t normally stop at… was there anything good about this 2+ year reroute? IMO, no.)

    If anyone else is going to the bus parade/fair, I hope to see you there!

  2. I can’t attend today’s events, but Sunday or Monday, if I’m feeling insufficiently recreational this holiday weekend, I’ll try and grab some video of buses in operation.

  3. I don’t have a video camera, or the bandwidth at home to upload it… :(

    I do think I’ll make some visual media somehow (TV, newspaper, etc.), as several people with cameras caught me and several other members of the Transit Riders Union with “Fight the Cuts” signs as various speakers spoke from 11-11:30. Yes, this is the same group that produced the leaflet I gave to Chris Smith after the presentation by Michael Ward upstairs. :)

  4. These are the photos of the parade I found online, linked from Twitter (I don’t see any on Flickr or OregonLive.com):
    http://twitpic.com/5pyk8
    http://twitpic.com/5pylp
    http://phodroid.com/09/05/3n7ae2

    Also, I am planning on getting out today and tomorrow to get some video, and might even get the last and first buses (thankfully, its not bitter cold like when they closed the mall).

    From the articles:
    “It will be safe if everyone is alert and does their part,” said Allen Morgan, TriMet’s operator training manager.

    But is everyone going to do their part? Are motorists 100% vigilant about following the law by looking for and obeying signage? Is “(T-like shape) / BUS” on the trackways clear and enforceable? Are there “transit only” and “no left turn” signs over the transitway?

    Nope.

    “It’s going to take a while for everyone to get used to us again,” said TriMet
    Communications Director Mary Fetsch, who was along for the ride.

    What about people visiting from Montana who end up in the confusion? They’re certainly not going to be used to it.

    Downtown business owner Phil Kalberer said he is cautiously optimistic there will be no persistent traffic problems when the mall reopens. Kalberer, who chaired the citizen advisory committee that helped redesign the mall, said TriMet did a good job of minimizing problems when the buses were temporarily shifted to Third and Fourth avenues.

    But there’s a big difference there. On 3rd & 4th, there were no special rules, turning restrictions or lane restrictions and buses mixed with traffic just like they would normally do.

    According to TriMet’s Morgan, each block on the mall had to be custom designed to accommodate cars, buses and trains.

  5. Where was Fred Hansen???????????????????????????

    He should have been FRONT and CENTER. Once again, he can’t be bothered to take time from his desk jockeying to actually be concerned with BUS service.

  6. As far as I can tell, TriMet has not updated either their internal or external data files (including the one Transit Surfer relies on) to reflect the movement of routes from 3rd/4th to the Mall.

  7. Chris Smith Says: As far as I can tell, TriMet has not updated either their internal or external data files (including the one Transit Surfer relies on) to reflect the movement of routes from 3rd/4th to the Mall.

    So much for automation.

    Working on it . . .

  8. As far as I can tell, TriMet has not updated either their internal or external data files

    Trip planner/stop info/etc has been updated, though will still give you info on the old stops (but note the new combined line names which never served that stop), as has the interactive map (note the dashed pattern for multiple MAX lines, which looks suspiciously like my map for which that idea was poo-pooed, as well as the colorful route symbols), but not Transit Tracker.

  9. Where was Fred Hansen??????????????????????????? He should have been FRONT and CENTER. Once again, he can’t be bothered to take time from his desk jockeying to actually be concerned with BUS service.

    (Wouldn’t one question mark suffice???????????????????????????)

    I thought, based on your past arguments, that TriMet wasn’t interested promoting bus service, ignored, marginalized it, disinvested in it, etc.

    And yet here TriMet specifically touts *bus* service, by name, with a big media event, paid advertising around town in various media, a parade, vendors, performers, etc., and your current argument is that Fred Hansen wasn’t there?

    I’ve got plenty of issues with the way certain things are done (or not done) at TriMet… but this is really beginning to look to me like you’re arguing that TriMet can do no right.

  10. Fred Hansen was there, and was front and center, as he was one of the speakers shortly after 11 AM.

    The thing nobody is talking about is the new schedules include a service cut. For example, some 44 weekday headways are down to 24 minutes (they were 15 minutes), and weekends are down to 35 minutes (they were 30 minutes). I know TriMet has done similar things in the past as much of the summer sign-up is while K-12 schools aren’t in session, however I’m wondering if this time around when September 2009 rolls around that the previous service levels don’t return.

    However, it’s great to be back on 5th and 6th. Heading down there on Friday, I was on Yellow Line MAX and heard a premature automated announcement “Mall, SW 5th Ave., doors to my left. Bus service on 5th and 6th Aves.” for the first time in over 2 years.

    BTW, I’d say that when C-TRAN’s bus showed up to the bus fair on Friday, it practically stole the show. (I won’t mention the buses C-TRAN ran on the Portland Express routes eight years ago.)

  11. Erik Halstead wrote: “Where was Fred Hansen??????????????????????????? He should have been FRONT and CENTER. Once again, he can’t be bothered to take time from his desk jockeying to actually be concerned with BUS service.”

    Jason Barbour replied: “Fred Hansen was there, and was front and center, as he was one of the speakers shortly after 11 AM.”

    Thanks for that update, Jason.

    Care to revise or amend your remarks about the event and/or Fred, Erik?

  12. Has anyone seen any cars causing problems since the buses moved? I know it’s early, but last week I saw about 5 cars in 5 minutes in the wrong lanes, several while making right turns.

  13. Oh, yeah. Almost witnessed a car-bus collision when a driver turned right from the left lane right in front of a bus. Operators and trainers/supervisors say drivers breaking the law has been a big issue. I also got yelled at when I stopped someone from turning the wrong way onto 5th and yelled at them to “follow the law”.

    Part of the problem is that its not always perfectly clear that the right lanes are for transit only since there’s no signs and just an “(odd T-like shape) / BUS” on the trackways. But I did look through the driver’s manual, and it does say that crossing double white lines is a no-no, which I’ve seen.

    I’ll have video of the end of service on 4th Ave and the return to the mall soon.

  14. IMO ideally the 2 transit lanes should have been painted red (which i believe is the designated color for bus lanes) so that they stand out from the general auto lane.

  15. Yes, I saw a lot of lawbreaking motorists today (violating lane usage, violating “no right turn” signs, etc.)

    But I’m willing to shrug it off… buses were on a Sunday/Holiday schedule and overall mall traffic was very light.

    But then, I’m the sort of person who shrugs off cyclists coasting through stop signs when there is light or no traffic, and pedestrians crossing against the light when it wouldn’t interfere with anyone else’s movements. Others may take a different view.

    I’m hoping that on heavy usage days, motorists will see the high volume of buses (and eventually trains) and get the impression that the left lane is the best lane to use.

  16. IMO ideally the 2 transit lanes should have been painted red (which i believe is the designated color for bus lanes) so that they stand out from the general auto lane.

    Goes against what the City of Portland wants — that’s the reason why the cement turtles between the MAX lane & the auto lanes on Yamhill & Morrison are not painted white to designate that as a train-only lane. I agree with you though, but the city thought it would take away from the “look” of the mall.

  17. Bob R. wrote: but this is really beginning to look to me like you’re arguing that TriMet can do no right.

    Bob, produce me video of Fred Hansen at this event, showing me an interview with a credentialed journalist with him ON RECORD citing the value and benefit of the bus investment, and I’ll apologize and retract my statement.

    The last time I heard Fred Hansen in an interview that was citable (about two weeks ago), he was going on and on about how we CAN NOT invest in our bus system, with lies that make Sam Adams look good.

    The fact that despite all of the video and photo footage, he can’t be produced, the fact that he was there came out days after the fact, and that he can’t be found on record citing improvements to our bus system, future plans, and capital spending on our bus system (that is **NOT** at all related to MAX, which is the only reason we have the Transit Mall project anyways – not to improve bus service) once again makes me question TriMet’s true intentions.

    It should be noted that TriMet started removing bus shelters on Broadway a full week before the Mall opened, leaving dozens of riders out in a rain storm on Tuesday; while today there are still numerous bus stops (specifically on Naito and on 4th Avenue) that have now-outdated bus stop signs. Does this make sense???? Removing bus stop amenities early, and then leaving outdated information signs up to confuse riders???

    Oh, wait, this is TriMet’s EXCELLENT service. It must be the rider’s fault that TriMet removed the bus shelter. It was the rider’s fault that they are waiting for a bus at the wrong location, because they are relying on a TriMet installed and maintained bus stop sign which states that a certain bus stops at a certain location.

  18. Jason McHuff: Part of the problem is that its not always perfectly clear that the right lanes are for transit only since there’s no signs and just an “(odd T-like shape) / BUS” on the trackways. But I did look through the driver’s manual, and it does say that crossing double white lines is a no-no, which I’ve seen.

    I had to refresh my memory this morning — the right lane very clearly says “BUS ONLY.”

  19. Uh, Erik…

    You wrote:

    Where was Fred Hansen??????????????????????????? He should have been FRONT and CENTER. Once again, he can’t be bothered to take time from his desk jockeying to actually be concerned with BUS service.

    Jason wrote: Fred Hansen was there, and was front and center, as he was one of the speakers shortly after 11 AM.

    To which you now write: Bob, produce me video of Fred Hansen at this event, showing me an interview with a credentialed journalist with him ON RECORD citing the value and benefit of the bus investment, and I’ll apologize and retract my statement.

    That, to me, sounds like moving the goalposts. Fred was there, apparently, and gave a speech. Which kinda shows you were wrong when you suggeste he “couldn’t be bothered to take time from his desk jockeying”, yadda yadda. Whether or not he spoke words meeting your satisfaction to a journalist, on the record, at that event, is not what you originally suggested. You suggested that he couldn’t be bothered to attend–when it appears that he in fact did.

    But really. You focus on minutiae too much. An earlier comment of mine concerning your attitude on this point was removed by the moderator, so I won’t repeat it–but you seem to to feel that any failure of Fred Hansen, or other Tri-Met management, to openly proclaim their undying love for the bus system at each and every public forum they happen to attend–is somehow proof positive that they hate busses, want to replace the icky smelly things with rails at every chance, and so forth.

    Why do you think Fred has an anti-bus bias? Do you think he is in bed with developers? Do you think he has Vera Katz disease (I’ve always kinda suspected that Mayor McDaniels on South Park was based on Vera), and considers the bus system low-class or insufficiently cosmopolitan? Do tell us.

  20. the fact that he was there came out days after the fact

    From PSU’s schedule, posted May 19, three days before the event:

    Speakers are Lindsay Desrochers, PSU vice president of Finance and Administration; Fred Hansen, TriMet general manager; and Portland Mayor Sam Adams.

  21. EngineerScotty wrote: Why do you think Fred has an anti-bus bias? Do you think he is in bed with developers? Do you think he has Vera Katz disease (I’ve always kinda suspected that Mayor McDaniels on South Park was based on Vera), and considers the bus system low-class or insufficiently cosmopolitan? Do tell us.

    [Moderator: Complaint about application of the rules removed. The rules are not being applied unevenly with respect to you. We’ve debated this in the past, I’ve cited numerous examples which you’ve ignored, and there’s nothing new to add here.]

    So, why does Erik think that Fred Hansen is anti-bus?

    Well..let’s see…he makes VERY FEW, if any, public comments which are in favor of the bus system; and the fact that nobody can even produce anything on video to put him on record underscores that. Meanwhile he is on record as making highly critical anti-bus statements, justifying his management decision NOT to invest in the bus system, cutting bus service extensively, failing to purchase adequate buses and high capacity buses, and environmentally friendly buses – Portland is far behind most transit agencies of similar size.

    When comparing amenities on bus vs. MAX/Streetcar/WES the bias is quite apparent – riding the bus is akin to the old photograph depicting “separate but equal” with the two water fountains. Compare any good bus stop with a MAX stop, there is simply no comparison. At my new bus stop (on the PSU campus) there was no schedule information, no Transit Tracker sign, and only a bus shelter style bench (already marred with grafitti) yet this is a brand new Transit Mall stop. Why the lack of amenities?

    TriMet was in quite the rush to remove a bus shelter from the old PSU stop on Broadway right before a huge rain storm…why was that?

    TriMet keeps old buses on the road and doesn’t replace them…why?

    TriMet doesn’t purchase articulated buses even though the ridership demand is there. Why?

    And since Fred’s attendance at this event was so well covered…what did he say? Was it on video? What did he say about the buses? Did he cite improvements to the bus system? Everyone is having their little tissy fit about Erik, but absolutely nobody can actually cite that he is actually addressing my concerns.

    So here is my question for Bob R, Chris S, and EngineerScotty:

    Why do you keep justifying TriMet’s actions and discrimination of bus riders as appropriate?

    Why do you feel it’s OK to discriminate against 2/3rds of TriMet’s ridership to fund massive capital projects for only a few?

    Why do you keep backing up Fred Hansen?

  22. “Why do you think Fred has an anti-bus bias? Do you think he is in bed with developers? Do you think he has Vera Katz disease (I’ve always kinda suspected that Mayor McDaniels on South Park was based on Vera), and considers the bus system low-class or insufficiently cosmopolitan? Do tell us.”

    >>>> I’ll tell you why–my theory is that Metro and Trimet are infested with railfans, who are only interested in sticking tracks everywhere to enjoy their hobby. This is why you don’t see hardly any type of BRT around here, for instance, as opposed to other cities with rail and bus service.

    BTW, the new ‘rail’ mall has again screwed a lot of transit riders–witness the #14, for instance. This always happens anytime a new rail line is built around here

  23. Why do you keep justifying TriMet’s actions and discrimination of bus riders as appropriate?

    Why do you keep posting phony arguments and attributing them to me and others, even though nobody here has made such arguments?

  24. Erik, nobody here is defending discrimination against bus riders because it doesn’t exist outside of your own fevered imagination. If you didn’t keep going on about some mythical anti-bus bias, you wouldn’t keep getting called out on it. If it bugs you that some people here simply won’t accept your silly paranoid whining, just stay off the subject. Or at least provide some proof other than “they aren’t doing things in exactly the way I want them done.”

    And what the hell is your issue with Bob? He’s been incredibly indulgent with you. Patience of a saint, frankly.

    (And yeah, Bob, I know … personally directed comments, against the rules. But seriously … Erik INVITES them with these spurious attacks on the motives of other people who post on these boards, not to mention our hard-working public officials. Disagreeing with a policy is one thing; attacking the character or motives of people who support it is something else. It seems to me that someone who doesn’t want to be the target of personal comments shouldn’t be making them himself.)

  25. I’ll tell you why–my theory is that Metro and Trimet are infested with railfans, who are only interested in sticking tracks everywhere to enjoy their hobby.

    I just bumped a Portland Streetcar CAC member today, on the bus mall … he was waiting for a bus. Didn’t seem to be particularly upset to be a bus rider. Go figure.

    Got any evidence for your theory?

  26. Erik Halstead: When comparing amenities on bus vs. MAX/Streetcar/WES the bias is quite apparent – riding the bus is akin to the old photograph depicting “separate but equal” with the two water fountains. Compare any good bus stop with a MAX stop, there is simply no comparison. At my new bus stop (on the PSU campus) there was no schedule information, no Transit Tracker sign, and only a bus shelter style bench (already marred with grafitti) yet this is a brand new Transit Mall stop. Why the lack of amenities?

    The comparison shouldn’t be between bus & rail stops, but between High Capacity and local service. TriMet has (since well before Fred Hansen came to the agency) invested HCT effort in rail. Rail stations have very high ridership and, hence, more amenities. If you were to look at bus stops on Lombard and Interstate, for example, where ridership is extremely high, you’d see essentially identical amenities at bus and rail.

    The new Mall bus stops don’t have TransitTracker signs YET. Neither do the rail stops. When the shelter construction is complete, signs will be installed — many many more of them at bus stops than at MAX platforms — and you will also see that shelters at bus stops are considerably more impressive than on rail. Rail stations are essentially an entire city block, with a shelter at the forward end — lots of unsheltered space, which is simply not true of buses.

    Construction is nowhere near complete, so it’s extremely early to make judgments about bus v rail on the Mall.

  27. Nick theoldurbanist Says: BTW, the new ‘rail’ mall has again screwed a lot of transit riders–witness the #14, for instance. This always happens anytime a new rail line is built around here

    Routing of Line 14, and for that matter any of the other downtown buse,s has virtually nothing to do with a rail line, but rather with capacity on 5th & 6th and decisions to expedite bus service down the Mall, making a conscious decision to speed up bus travel through the CBD resulting in improved travel ON BUSES.

    And I’ve seen no evidence that bus riders got “screwed” as a result of Westside, the Red Line or the Yellow Line.

  28. Many bus riders who used to have a nonstop ride into work downtown have expressed resentment over their routes being converted to MAX feeders; requiring a transfer. Whether that constitutes “screwing up” bus service depends on the passenger; but transfers–even if in a fully-enclosed station–are a PITA. Most MAX stations, including TCs and park-and-rides, are quite exposed to the elements and such–a major concern in Portland.

    In a few cases; riders may even have more complicated trips than bus-to-MAX-to-downtown, necessiated by MAX-related changes of service.

    OTOH, the suggestion, floated by some, that the fact that many roadside bus stops are little more than a sign planted in the curb, somehow constitutes “discrimination” against busses (as if there is a colorable civil rights issue at stake), is silly. There are thousands of bus stops in the city and suburbs–should each have a TransitTracker display, a covered shelter, and a ticket vending machine?

  29. credentialed journalist

    Who hands out the credentials, anyways?

    which is the only reason we have the Transit Mall project anyways

    Yes, the mall project is first about light rail (I’ve seen it referred to as the “Portland Mall Light Rail Project”) but the mall needed work regardless. There were plans to do work on the mall but they got put off because of the possibility of adding rail in the future (first as a part of South|North and now the plan that was actually completed).

    leaving dozens of riders out in a rain storm

    Weren’t there any building entries/awnings riders could have waited in/under? Also, its not like there’s official shelter now.

    that have now-outdated bus stop signs

    Isn’t there notices there about the changes, that clearly say some lines aren’t stopping there anymore? I know that’s the case for the lone remaining bus stop on 4th.

    the right lane very clearly says “BUS ONLY.”

    When the MAX track is in the middle lane, yes. But not actually ON the MAX track.

    So, why does Erik think that Fred Hansen is anti-bus?

    Why is Erik asking other people this? Why doesn’t he ask himself?

    what did he say? Was it on video?

    Well, maybe if your’s truly was getting paid to film things like that, it would be on video. But if you just want the speech, you could always ask for it since it is a public record (or maybe Fred is that good a speaker).

    at bus stops on Lombard and Interstate

    Heck, I just realized this morning that there’s even audible Transit Tracker signs (yes, multiple per stop) there. (This is in addition to the artistic shelters)

    But, overall, the problem is that a) there’s huge sums of “free” Federal money available for capital projects (and if you’re going to do a fixed guideway, rail makes sense since 1. we already have a system 2. a train can carry a lot more people than a bus 3. steel rails are more efficient than asphalt/concrete) b) some people just won’t ride a bus (I don’t necessarily like that) and c) rail is what apparently attracts development

  30. resentment over their routes being converted to MAX feeders; requiring a transfer

    Well, I’m sorry, but its more efficient to put everybody on a high-capacity mode instead of having all the individual buses continue to downtown. Per the January 21, 1998, Oregonian:

    “We’re taking those service hours where we used to get stuck in traffic on the Sunset Highway and redirecting them into the community,” [Mary] Fetsch said. “That means we’re adding service later at night and on weekends.”

    many roadside bus stops are little more than a sign planted in the curb

    If you go to San Francisco, I think even some rail stops may be designated by no more than a yellow band with “CAR STOP” painted on the street. I know that all the rail stops aren’t full-on stations.

  31. Erik Halstead: the reason no one wants a job in local government.

    The light rail fleet is older than the bus fleet, and there are a million more bus stops and they cannot all be nice.

    Can you please move on?

  32. Nick theoldurbanist said:

    “….my theory is that Metro and Trimet are infested with railfans, who are only interested in sticking tracks everywhere to enjoy their hobby.”

    To which Bob R. responded:

    “Got any evidence for your theory?”

    To which I say:

    Check this out–it’s a riot. I has my suspicions about him all along.
    http://portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=123922656417971900

    RAILFAN INFESTATION right at the top! And an organization’s tone is set from the top. And I wonder how many ‘friends’ with similar proclivities he has hired.

  33. “Many bus riders who used to have a nonstop ride into work downtown have expressed resentment over their routes being converted to MAX feeders; requiring a transfer.”

    >>>> Many trips became longer and more inconvenient, and I suspect that a lot of potential ridership has been lost. The feeder buses on the Westside are very unproductive and run infrequently (Talk about operator costs!). Much better if Westside MAX had been constructed as a busway with BRT (on stilts?) operation on the Sunset from Sylvan to Goose Hollow.

  34. Check this out–it’s a riot. I has my suspicions about him all along.

    You provided a link to a humorous, tongue-in-cheek personality piece which was as much about taxi cabs as it was about trains.

    The article provides zero discussion of policy.

    You’ll have to do better than that.

    I can just as easily find an article which portrays Bradgon as a bus nut.

    For example:

    http://blog.oregonlive.com/idiotbox/2008/06/bragdons_outlook_portland_keep.html

    A child transit buff, 11-year-old Bragdon set a record, of sorts, by riding 200 miles on Tri-Met buses over 14 hours.

    Maybe Mr. Bradgon was some kind of Manchurian candidate, forcing himself against his nature to sit on a bus for 14 hours, just to throw people off the trail of his prurient railfan agenda. The mendacity!

  35. The Oregonian article was on the front page of the Metro section, IIRC. One of the reasons I’ve clung to my morning paper is that the website is so horrible (this morning there is a caption for a photo of “grils lacrosse”.

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