Because the tool in question will initially be available for MAX only. The tool works best when many people are using it on a given line, so it makes sense to do the initial testing on the lines with the largest rider populations.
Erik, we really don’t wake up in the morning and ask ourselves how we can screw bus riders.
Because the tool in question will initially be available for MAX only. The tool works best when many people are using it on a given line, so it makes sense to do the initial testing on the lines with the largest rider populations.
OK, why not the 72? Or the 33? Or the 6? Or the 57? Or the 44? Or the 12? They all have pretty decent rider populations.
Chris, I’m sorry but I’m seeing right through your argument and this is just another example of how you don’t support bus service. No, you don’t wake up in the morning and ask, because it’s ingrained.
Except for Matthew, he clearly makes it a point.
Let’s see you REPOST your original post; as you wrote:
Looking for a Few Good Transit Riders
… to beta-test a new transit information tool. MAX riders preferred.
Now, let’s see the “Truth in Advertising” post:
Looking for a Few Good MAX riders…to beta-test a new MAX information tool. Sorry, not available for Bus riders.
Give it a rest. It’s a _transit_ information tool. It’s a freaking beta-test. You need to be careful when selecting test subjects. It makes sense to confine the initial test to the highest-ridership line. That’s MAX.
If you want to work with a group developing software and deploy a beta-test invitation for the #12 or the #72, you’re more than welcome to do so. Nobody’s stopping you.
Instead you apparently have to harp on anybody who doesn’t do anything your way.
You’ve made many legitimate points over the years, but your ability to pick a fight over the tiniest things (like who is invited to a beta test, and how TriMet titles one out of four news releases about the same thing) and lash out at people who are transit supporters is simply amazing.
It makes sense to confine the initial test to the highest-ridership line. That’s MAX.
Bob, you know as well as I do that the Red Line between Gateway and PDX, and the entire Yellow Line, have ridership numbers LOWER than several bus lines. As does the Streetcar.
Constructive disagreement is welcome, but simply repeating your disagreement is not.
Your point, quote, Instead you apparently have to harp on anybody who doesn’t do anything your way.
You’ve made many legitimate points over the years, but your ability to pick a fight over the tiniest things (like who is invited to a beta test, and how TriMet titles one out of four news releases about the same thing) and lash out at people who are transit supporters is simply amazing.
Is repeating an argument you have made in the past.
Passion directed at individuals is not, and will be deleted promptly.
Well, that’s a given. Your quote: Instead you apparently have to harp on anybody who doesn’t do anything your way. Light on substance, heavy on “you” and “your”.
You state that I am welcome to work with the beta-test group. Here’s what I had to say about that:
Quote, I ride the bus nearly every day, twice a day… I guess I’m not a “good transit rider” though because I ride a bus…
So do you want me to beta-test a program that I have been selectively eliminated from because I ride a bus and not a MAX train? I’d love to work with the group, but it seems that this group has no interest in providing a transit tool, just a MAX tool. I’m sorry, but transit includes bus service, transit is not exclusive to MAX. MAX is just one form of transit. A transit tool should include all forms of transit; therefore a tool that supports only MAX cannot by definition be a “transit” tool.
Instead you apparently have to harp on anybody who doesn’t do anything your way.
That could be said of many other individuals, but you simply are using that as a personal attack as me.
Maybe I should start re-hashing my arguments for the disinvestment in bus service in favor of MAX service, but I don’t want to violate any of the forum rules. However it appears you are given free rein to do so.
It’s strange that to dismiss MAX as a suitable beta-test candidate that you would eliminate the majority of the Red Line’s corridor and stops to make your argument. The Red Line, throughout it’s actual operating corridor (instead of your arbitrary subset) has over 24,000 weekday boardings.
The Yellow Line now has more boardings than the #12 (just by a bit). By your standards, the #12 would have to be excluded anyway, because the Yellow Line has more boardings.
All three current MAX lines have a significant section of overlap. This also helps for beta-test purposes.
As I said before, there’s nothing stopping you, or any other group, from developing an information tool and testing it first on a bus rather than with MAX. Go for it.
Chris was putting out a call for volunteer software testers, not a dictate from on-high of who must ride what.
Maybe I should start re-hashing my arguments for the disinvestment in bus service in favor of MAX service
When did you ever stop?
Seriously, Erik –
If you want me to get that strict about Rules #1 and #2, I’d have to delete most of your comments in this thread and others. You’re the one repeating, ad nauseum, the argument that there’s a bias against bus users at play here.
You just made a personal attack against Chris here yesterday, and that’s when I jumped in with “give it a rest” and that which followed.
Over time, I’ve let the overwhelming majority (perhaps all, I honestly don’t remember) of your criticisms (often personal) of me stay posted, because I’m a moderator here and I don’t want to create a false impression of suppressing your views whilst simultaneously debating them.
I’ve even admonished others when you’ve demanded it (and in once case that resulted in a valuable contributor leaving the site).
But you still keep coming with claims of “bias”, “bias”, “bias”. I’m really quite sick of it.
If you want me to delete everything I’ve said in this thread, that’s fine, I will, but by the same standards your stuff will have to go, too. Your choice.
Hi –
Just a note from the guy that runs Clever Commute. (me)
We’re really excited that Portland is looking to try this out…and I’m sure that riders will find value in it.
All I’d like to add is that we’d love to expand the network further..and we just need to start somewhere (blue line).
If you look at the existing Clever Commute network, you’ll see that we service many many routes…with many many participants.
So…the “beta” here is really more of a test of “can the blue line reveal any subtleties to servicing the Portland-area community?”. If there are…then we’ll see if we can improve the service before we think about rolling it out more broadly.
We’re confident that the technology supporting “Clever” itself works fine. It’s stable/mature and is used day-in/day-out in some of the largest commuter lines in the country.
I encourage you to Google around a bit and you’ll see “good news” stories from major media and individual bloggers. Clever Commute is a grass-roots service…borne out of need/necessity.
Please feel free to reach back out to me if you have any questions.
I don’t ride the Blue Line much, but I can see how this could be really useful for people who do. It can be hard to know if there’s an incident downtown that might delay things, since sometimes it seems like even TriMet doesn’t even know what’s going on.
There have been times I’ve used the MAX instead of driving, and regretted it due to an “incident” that had screwed up half the network. It would have been nice to know before I was on the train.
The only feature I see missing is maybe a mobile-web accessible log of recent events as line items, similar to PDXinfo.net for example.
Well, now that we know which fox is in what hen house, I will second the motion that the 12-Barbur (and 94-Pacific Hwy. Express by default) be considered for any expansions of the service in Portland. For the reason/rationale behind this, see “When’s My Bus Coming?” in the June 2006 archives.
This is a suggestion coming from someone who doesn’t even have a wireless device and used the route only 20 days last year(!) – but can understand that it would benefit quite a few people.
20 responses to “Looking for a Few Good Transit Riders”
What exactly is a ‘beta’ test anyway? I keep seeing that word.
What exactly is a ‘beta’ test anyway? I keep seeing that word.
What exactly is a ‘beta’ test anyway? I keep seeing that word.
Software that the developers would like user feedback on, but which is not ready for use by large volumes of people.
For definitions of “beta-test” and related terms, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle
OK Chris;
I ride the max everyday, sign me up, you have my email.
al
OK Chris;
I ride the max everyday, sign me up, you have my email.
al
OK Chris;
I ride the max everyday, sign me up, you have my email.
al
MAX riders preferred
And why is this??
I ride the bus nearly every day, twice a day… I guess I’m not a “good transit rider” though because I ride a bus…
Because the tool in question will initially be available for MAX only. The tool works best when many people are using it on a given line, so it makes sense to do the initial testing on the lines with the largest rider populations.
Erik, we really don’t wake up in the morning and ask ourselves how we can screw bus riders.
Erik, we really don’t wake up in the morning and ask ourselves how we can screw bus riders.
Correct. Normally I have it all planned out the night before.
Because the tool in question will initially be available for MAX only. The tool works best when many people are using it on a given line, so it makes sense to do the initial testing on the lines with the largest rider populations.
OK, why not the 72? Or the 33? Or the 6? Or the 57? Or the 44? Or the 12? They all have pretty decent rider populations.
Chris, I’m sorry but I’m seeing right through your argument and this is just another example of how you don’t support bus service. No, you don’t wake up in the morning and ask, because it’s ingrained.
Except for Matthew, he clearly makes it a point.
Let’s see you REPOST your original post; as you wrote:
Looking for a Few Good Transit Riders
… to beta-test a new transit information tool. MAX riders preferred.
Now, let’s see the “Truth in Advertising” post:
Looking for a Few Good MAX riders…to beta-test a new MAX information tool. Sorry, not available for Bus riders.
Erik –
Give it a rest. It’s a _transit_ information tool. It’s a freaking beta-test. You need to be careful when selecting test subjects. It makes sense to confine the initial test to the highest-ridership line. That’s MAX.
If you want to work with a group developing software and deploy a beta-test invitation for the #12 or the #72, you’re more than welcome to do so. Nobody’s stopping you.
Instead you apparently have to harp on anybody who doesn’t do anything your way.
You’ve made many legitimate points over the years, but your ability to pick a fight over the tiniest things (like who is invited to a beta test, and how TriMet titles one out of four news releases about the same thing) and lash out at people who are transit supporters is simply amazing.
It makes sense to confine the initial test to the highest-ridership line. That’s MAX.
Bob, you know as well as I do that the Red Line between Gateway and PDX, and the entire Yellow Line, have ridership numbers LOWER than several bus lines. As does the Streetcar.
So your argument is false.
One other thing, Bob, is the rules.
Constructive disagreement is welcome, but simply repeating your disagreement is not.
Your point, quote, Instead you apparently have to harp on anybody who doesn’t do anything your way.
You’ve made many legitimate points over the years, but your ability to pick a fight over the tiniest things (like who is invited to a beta test, and how TriMet titles one out of four news releases about the same thing) and lash out at people who are transit supporters is simply amazing.
Is repeating an argument you have made in the past.
Passion directed at individuals is not, and will be deleted promptly.
Well, that’s a given. Your quote: Instead you apparently have to harp on anybody who doesn’t do anything your way. Light on substance, heavy on “you” and “your”.
You state that I am welcome to work with the beta-test group. Here’s what I had to say about that:
Quote, I ride the bus nearly every day, twice a day… I guess I’m not a “good transit rider” though because I ride a bus…
So do you want me to beta-test a program that I have been selectively eliminated from because I ride a bus and not a MAX train? I’d love to work with the group, but it seems that this group has no interest in providing a transit tool, just a MAX tool. I’m sorry, but transit includes bus service, transit is not exclusive to MAX. MAX is just one form of transit. A transit tool should include all forms of transit; therefore a tool that supports only MAX cannot by definition be a “transit” tool.
Instead you apparently have to harp on anybody who doesn’t do anything your way.
That could be said of many other individuals, but you simply are using that as a personal attack as me.
Maybe I should start re-hashing my arguments for the disinvestment in bus service in favor of MAX service, but I don’t want to violate any of the forum rules. However it appears you are given free rein to do so.
Erik –
It’s strange that to dismiss MAX as a suitable beta-test candidate that you would eliminate the majority of the Red Line’s corridor and stops to make your argument. The Red Line, throughout it’s actual operating corridor (instead of your arbitrary subset) has over 24,000 weekday boardings.
The Yellow Line now has more boardings than the #12 (just by a bit). By your standards, the #12 would have to be excluded anyway, because the Yellow Line has more boardings.
All three current MAX lines have a significant section of overlap. This also helps for beta-test purposes.
As I said before, there’s nothing stopping you, or any other group, from developing an information tool and testing it first on a bus rather than with MAX. Go for it.
Chris was putting out a call for volunteer software testers, not a dictate from on-high of who must ride what.
Maybe I should start re-hashing my arguments for the disinvestment in bus service in favor of MAX service
When did you ever stop?
Seriously, Erik –
If you want me to get that strict about Rules #1 and #2, I’d have to delete most of your comments in this thread and others. You’re the one repeating, ad nauseum, the argument that there’s a bias against bus users at play here.
You just made a personal attack against Chris here yesterday, and that’s when I jumped in with “give it a rest” and that which followed.
Over time, I’ve let the overwhelming majority (perhaps all, I honestly don’t remember) of your criticisms (often personal) of me stay posted, because I’m a moderator here and I don’t want to create a false impression of suppressing your views whilst simultaneously debating them.
I’ve even admonished others when you’ve demanded it (and in once case that resulted in a valuable contributor leaving the site).
But you still keep coming with claims of “bias”, “bias”, “bias”. I’m really quite sick of it.
If you want me to delete everything I’ve said in this thread, that’s fine, I will, but by the same standards your stuff will have to go, too. Your choice.
Hi –
Just a note from the guy that runs Clever Commute. (me)
We’re really excited that Portland is looking to try this out…and I’m sure that riders will find value in it.
All I’d like to add is that we’d love to expand the network further..and we just need to start somewhere (blue line).
If you look at the existing Clever Commute network, you’ll see that we service many many routes…with many many participants.
So…the “beta” here is really more of a test of “can the blue line reveal any subtleties to servicing the Portland-area community?”. If there are…then we’ll see if we can improve the service before we think about rolling it out more broadly.
We’re confident that the technology supporting “Clever” itself works fine. It’s stable/mature and is used day-in/day-out in some of the largest commuter lines in the country.
I encourage you to Google around a bit and you’ll see “good news” stories from major media and individual bloggers. Clever Commute is a grass-roots service…borne out of need/necessity.
Please feel free to reach back out to me if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Josh
I don’t ride the Blue Line much, but I can see how this could be really useful for people who do. It can be hard to know if there’s an incident downtown that might delay things, since sometimes it seems like even TriMet doesn’t even know what’s going on.
There have been times I’ve used the MAX instead of driving, and regretted it due to an “incident” that had screwed up half the network. It would have been nice to know before I was on the train.
The only feature I see missing is maybe a mobile-web accessible log of recent events as line items, similar to PDXinfo.net for example.
Well, now that we know which fox is in what hen house, I will second the motion that the 12-Barbur (and 94-Pacific Hwy. Express by default) be considered for any expansions of the service in Portland. For the reason/rationale behind this, see “When’s My Bus Coming?” in the June 2006 archives.
This is a suggestion coming from someone who doesn’t even have a wireless device and used the route only 20 days last year(!) – but can understand that it would benefit quite a few people.