Sam is pushing Green Streets (streets with treatments like swales that capture and filter stormwater) and the Daily Journal of Commerce is suggesting they could be good for business.
Bonus: we get more curb extensions :-)
Sam is pushing Green Streets (streets with treatments like swales that capture and filter stormwater) and the Daily Journal of Commerce is suggesting they could be good for business.
Bonus: we get more curb extensions :-)
12 responses to “Green Streets Good for Business”
Lovely, the Oregonian article Sam cites concludes with this: “In the commission form of government, it can be difficult for any policy to penetrate bureau walls and permeate the city. Even green streets don’t address some impervious surfaces.”
As if that is at all related…
Green streets are fine, however any swales should be in the median between the street and the sidewalk, NOT being built as curb extensions that protrude out into the street and are yet another obstacle to the safety of vehicles using the roadway.
OK, Terry, I’ll bite. Do you have any data that suggests that intersections with curb extensions higher rates of auto accidents?
Chris,
My statement is from personal observations including accidents where the curb extensions contributed to the underlying principle of why the accident occurred. One such example was a crash that I witnessed whereby a tractor trailer rig made a right turn from the left turn lane. The semi-truck driver came to stop at the crosswalk with a green light before signaling with his right turning indicator the truck was going to turn right. That allowed the car I was following to be on the right side of the truck in the trough lane and past the point where the driver could see the right turn signal on the rear of the trailer start to flash when the truck started up again. The path the truck then took was directly in front of and over the top of the car, somewhat pinning it under the trailer. Had there been no curb extension at the intersection, the truck driver would not have had to make such a wide turning movement from a left turn lane, and the car would not have had enough room to be in the lane beside the truck. Therefore, the curb extension compromised the safety of the intersection and was a contributing factor to the crash.
Furthermore, I have been told by a person that I have a business association with about a crash that killed a driver due smashing into one of these so-called traffic calming devices, however I was not given the all details. The fact such obstructions exists makes them factors contributing to the crashes and in this case a death.
As for actual data, I doubt that it exists. The simple fact is that data is not compiled when it does not meet the needs of and runs counter to the planning schemes of the political powers that want to force an agenda on the public. An example of this can be found with the agenda for the Burnside couplet whereby 10 foot lanes are unsafe for motorists because large freight trucks and busses can not entirely fit between the lines. Yet this safety issue is completely sidestepped and ignored with no data available in any presentations made by supporters of the couplet proposal.
Terry, traffic accident data is compiled for all crashes that meeting certain criteria, which do not include whether there is a curb extension or not.
So it should be straightforward to look at the highest-accident intersections and see if there is a correlation with curb extensions.
Curb extensions, bumps, circles, are only a problem if motorists are exceeding posted speed limits.
Lenny — Posted speed limits are purely political with no basis in safety or engineering. They only serve three points:
* A revenue generation mechanism for the city [in the form of traffic tickets].
* A “feel good/ babysitter” law where an elected official thinks he/she knows whats best for the masses.
* A response to pressure from residents who don’t understand anything about safe design speed.
And to comment about curb extensions: I am not sure what function they serve other then to “slow down” tax paying motorists. They frequently take up space that could be used as another travel lane, prevent people from “getting over” to make a right turn, and make it so buses stop in the only travel lane with no way to pass.
I love curb extensions, especially on fairly busy streets.
I am not sure what function they serve other then to “slow down” tax paying motorists.
That’s a very useful function when traffic would otherwise move at speeds hazardous to pedestrians. They also increase the visibility and safety of pedestrians by giving motorists a clear view of the curb, unobstructed by parked cars. They also shorten curb-to-curb pedestrian crossing distance.
Of course, that’s not to say there aren’t bad designs, such as failure to consider the turn radius of trucks or buses expected to use a particular street.
Terry: “The simple fact is that data is not compiled when it does not meet the needs of and runs counter to the planning schemes of the political powers that want to force an agenda on the public.”
Terry, I am not a planner or a public official. I am a member of the public and I find this statement both offensive and a stretch- what evidence do you have to back up this “simple” fact?
Posted speed limits are purely political with no basis in safety or engineering.
I agree to some extent. Posted speeds are almost always higher than is truly safe as we can see by the number of deaths and injuries in auto accidents. So the question is how many lives are we willing to sacrifice to save a few minutes. Of course no one wants to consider it in those terms. But that really is the political balancing act.
Chris said: “So it should be straightforward to look at the highest-accident intersections and see if there is a correlation with curb extensions.”
The highest accident intersections are the ones with the highest volumes of traffic and the highest concentrations of pedestrian crossings. Therefore, to make the comparison you suggest, traffic volumes and speeds, pedestrian crossings, the number traffic and turn lanes, types of vehicles, etc. must all be similar.
Referring to curb extensions
Anthony said: “They frequently take up space that could be used as another travel lane, prevent people from “getting over” to make a right turn, and make it so buses stop in the only travel lane with no way to pass.”
I totally agree! Furthermore, the congestion created by curb extensions not only increases engine idle time that adds to motorist fuel consumption, but they slow travel time which negatively impacts the economy.
Hawthorne; I gave the type of example you are requesting in my original post in that no data (to my knowledge) is available that specifically identifies crashes related to narrow travel lanes. Chris also posted: “traffic accident data is compiled for all crashes that meeting certain criteria, which do not include whether there is a curb extension or not.”
So you know, the City has no control over speed limits. It’s set by the State. If the City or neighbors think traffic moves too quickly, ODOT does speed counts. If 85% of the traffic is meeting or not excessively exceeding the speed, the speed limit stays.
Full disclosure: I work for Sam.