Getting SMART about Washington County Commuter Rail


There was a nice piece in the Oregonian about Washington County Commuter Rail yesterday. One of my co-workers in Wilsonville was quoted.

The part I was impressed by was how WIlsonville is going to adjust the routes for their SMART bus system to get folks from the Commuter Rail station to employment areas (many of which are across the freeway from where the rails are). SMART is a small system, but I don’t think they get credit for how effective they are.


44 responses to “Getting SMART about Washington County Commuter Rail”

  1. In Vancouver, we have groups who feel that Bus Rapid Transit is a smarter solution than Light Rail. One of their common points is the ability to quickly and cheaply adjust the routes to fulfill changing need.

    I think you just threw a log on the fire.

  2. Once MAX is across the River, Vancouver should do whatever it wants, but imposing a BRT to MAX transfer at Delta/Vanport on all bi-state riders does not make sense.
    I have had a hand in creating three bus lines…C-tran 191, TriMet 85 and the Swan Island Evening Shuttle…as well as moving routes in NW Portland… TriMet 15, 77… Busline flexibility is a myth.

  3. One of their common points is the ability to quickly and cheaply adjust the routes to fulfill changing need.

    I am always puzzled by this claim. How is “bus rapid transit” easier to adjust than light rail? It seems that people are ignoring that many of the improvements that transform traditional buses into “bus rapid transit” are as fixed as light rail.

  4. Tis just a matter of time until the line is extended to Salem and perhaps on to Eugene.. Also people will discover how nice this system is and can establish a line on UP/BN tracks to say Castle Rock… in the past a line to Vancouver failed before all the others, so consider a line to east Vancouver in addition to the commuter line… perhaps wilth a Bart style tube under the river…

  5. Just curious, if a line is available why hasn’t the same type of commuter rail project been proposed from Vancouver to Portland? It seems an ideal alternative to I-5 congestion, a 15 minute shot connected DT centers.

  6. As a Trimet rider, bus lines ARE much more flexible than LRT’s; a BRT bus can run in a POW, and then leave it to service local streets, leaving people by their destinations and mitigating the need for needless transfers.

    The MAX operation is one of the most INFLEXIBLE things I have ever seen.

    BTW, it seems that this new Wash. county line is going to be full of transfers! In other words, very INFLEXIBLE.

  7. then leave it to service local streets, leaving people by their destinations and mitigating the need for needless transfers.

    But is that, in fact, the way most bus rapid transit operate? I don’t think so. I think they still use feeder buses that require transfers to the BRT system.

    if a line is available

    I don’t think there really is a line available for Vancouver-Portland that serves similar destinations.

  8. How are we going to shift this mindset that light rail, streetcars and rail are “so great”? These systems are notoriously expensive, slow, never on schedule, and cause accidents. There was one such accident on our “America’s Best Transit System” MAX just last week but you didn’t hear about it too much in “the news”. Amtrak is NEVER on time. It’s often so late that it doesn’t even leave the station in Portland when it’s supposed to have already arrived in Salem. I had someone point out how awful our roads are in Oregon compared to Washington and California. You would think you entered Mexico when crossing from Vancouver! We used to have nationally renowned freeways. Now they are all dilapidated and rusting. Just look underneath many of the Portland bridges and see for yourselves. The fact that they have seemingly unlimited budgets for toy trains while they let critical infrastructure denegrate is unfathomable to me and is a shame for our state.

  9. From my vantage point near San Francisco, take my word for it that the roads in Oregon are MUCH BETTER that California, even if compared to the worst stretches of I-5 through Oregon. Greg Tompkins obviously hasn’t been along I-80 between the Bay Area and Sacramento, or I-5 between the Bay Area and Los Angeles. In Oregon, I suspect this is partly due to better maintenance and significantly lower traffic volumes overall.

    Also, while TriMet service isn’t near the ideal, say, compared to any number of European cities, it is light years ahead of the typical standard for U.S. cities! There are good reasons why annual transit riders per capita in Portland is about 2-3 times the typical level for cities of Portland’s size. TriMet has come a long way, but they also have much further to go.

  10. Greg: With regards to Portland’s bridges, in the last 10 years the Ross Island Bridge, Hawthorne Bridge, Broadway Bridge, St. Johns and now the Burnside Bridge have undergone renovations, the Sellwood Bridge looks like it’s next up. Which bridges in Portland are being ignored?

  11. Seattle’s bus subway is mostly through routes.
    Pittsburgh has a “busway only” service on the East busway, but I once read that 36 services use the POW.

    A lot of feeder lines to a busway would not be desirable; it would be the same thing as the present dysfunctional west side feeder system to MAX.

  12. Very few if any of the routes are continue on. They usually layover at one or two waiting areas at the end stations. Most of the routes are suburban routes, with a few suburban ruoutes that run on City Streets rather than the freeway too much. Metro routes with three digits are suburban routes, the only double-digit(Seattle routes) that use the tunnel are the 41,71,72, and 73.

    The rail conversion problems stem from the idea of converting it to Light Rail was an afterthought(thanks to an advisory vote on Light Rail, which passed with 2/3), when the construction was nearly complete. The rails were not properly insulated, and in the curves, they decided to forgo super-elevation! Now we are getting closer to completion of the retrofit. Although I do not believe those reports from Sound Transit. Unlike the rest of the Light Rail Projects, I cannot see much of the tunnel retrofit, because it is underground, and while that is happening, the entrances have been sealed tight.

  13. A lot of feeder lines to a busway would not be desirable; it would be the same thing as the present dysfunctional west side feeder system to MAX.

    That was sort of my point. I don’t agree with you that it is disfunctional, but its not at all clear there is a realistic bus rapid-transit solution that would be “functional” by your definition either.

    I am not a transit planner. But it seems obvious to me that you are going to have to consolidate lightly used routes regardless of whether you use rail or buses or planes for that matter. And consolidation implies transfers.

  14. Getting back to Chris’ original post (about WC Commuter Rail and Wilsonville adjusting its bus system), it is interesting that Commuter Rail is built to connect Beaverton TC (good!), Tigard TC (good!), and Wilsonville (which is a 100% bus agency and much smaller and more customer focused than TriMet).

    The Washington Square station leaves something to be desired because there will be no connection to the 45, 62 or 92. Only the 43 and 76 will connect to the commuter rail station off of Hall Blvd. (The 78 is scheduled to be shortened as a Tigard-Lake Oswego route when 76 goes “frequent service”.)

    Tualatin, on the other hand, is a big question. TriMet claims that it has “excellent” bus connectivity, but in a recent article posted in the Tigard Times, it is finally admitted that there is simply NO PLACE for a bus stop on southbound Boones Ferry Road at the train station.

    Further, TriMet has ZERO plans to improve or increase local bus service in Tualatin. None. Zilch. Zip. Nada. Nip. Of the busses in Tualatin (not including the 12 which passes only through a corner of Tualatin or the 94 which makes no stops along the same route), TriMet has lines 36, 37 and 38 which terminate at the “Tualatin Park & Ride” (should be renamed “Bridgeport”, since it doesn’t even serve “downtown Tualatin”), the 96 (which is a Portland express and wouldn’t serve the same ridership as commuter rail; however it is the only bus that serves the south Tualatin neighborhoods), and the 76.

    To this day, there is ZERO bus service out Tualatin Road (where there is both a significant residential and employment base), Tualatin-Sherwood Road (including linking to Sherwood), only the 96 along Boones Ferry Road (which is rush hour and infrequent south of the Mohawk P&W), and the only service east of I-5 is the 76 to Meridian Park Hospital – no service on Nyberg Road or Borland Road.

    In short, only a very small percentage of Tualatin’s residents are adequately served by bus service; especially within walking distance. Commuter Rail, BTW, will only serve the extremely small number of residents in two condo developments at Tualatin Commons, and maybe the Hedges Creek apartment complex (although parts of the complex extend beyond the magic “half mile” radius.)

    So, SMART is to be applauded for providing decent, reliable, customer-friendly bus service to its city.

    TriMet? Let’s just say TriMet could do better. It should have known that there is no room for a bus stop on Boones Ferry Road. It should know that local connections are important – especially considering that the shopping center and Haagen’s are putting up a fight over the station location – specifically about parking. Honestly, I agree – there isn’t going to be enough parking, and TriMet thinks 70% of the ridership will walk. Since this isn’t MAX, and it won’t operate mid-days, evenings and rush hours, this is a commuter train and not frequent, rapid transportation. Besides, do 70% of MAX riders walk/bike/bus to their trips?

    BRT…well a BRT system MIGHT work, but not to compliment/replace Washington County Commuter Rail, rather to provide the 96 with different destinations (such as west Tualatin, east Tualatin, south Tualatin). But a well designed and thought out local bus service, with direct connections to Commuter Rail and the 96 express to Portland, would do just as well.

    Further, TriMet should learn from the neighbors up north – and replace the busses used on the 94 and 96 routes with true highway busses, not transit style busses.

  15. Actually, MAX ridership could be increased and transfers reduced at the same time with the introduction of station cars. BART and CalTrain ran pilot projects using electric cars during the heyday of the zero-emissions mandate, but sadly there has been little follow-up.

    The basic concept is similar to Flexcar carsharing, except that the cars are placed in fleets at suburban rail stops. Each car is used by multiple commuters each day. Those going from the suburbs to the city take a car home at night and drive in to the train in the morning. Those going to work in the suburbs take the train and pick a car up to drive to work. Where there is a big employer nearby, the cars can be further used by others during the workday for errands.

    This simple concept greatly increases the reach of rail stations. Suburban development patterns ensure feeder bus routes will always be anemic performers, attracting few “choice” riders. Providing the last mile link from train to home or work could easily be accomplished by repurposing park’n’ride spaces.

  16. SMART thanks you for the kudos, Chris.

    With a system as small as SMART, it is easier to plan for this type of growth so that the negative changes are minimal compared to the postives of offering new types of service and more route options.

    SMART shares a route with Salem’s transit system, Cherriots. This route runs on I-5 between Wilsonville and Salem (30 miles each way) and will also have a direct connection to the Commuter Rail.

    There will also be a 450 space park & ride, bike lockers and eventually mixed use office and retail space at the Wilsonville station.

  17. This simple concept greatly increases the reach of rail stations. Suburban development patterns ensure feeder bus routes will always be anemic performers, attracting few “choice” riders. Providing the last mile link from train to home or work could easily be accomplished by repurposing park’n’ride spaces.

    But isn’t one of Portland’s transit goals is to reduce automobile use, even in the suburbs?

    Or has Portland relegated itself that the suburbs are still going to be auto-centric, and the central city is pedestrian/transit-centric?

    Maybe the focus of the feeder routes shouldn’t be simply to feed into MAX/Commuter Rail, but to provide a variety of purposes – connecting neighborhoods to local shopping centers, medical centers, employment centers – and transportation hubs. I see plenty of people on my bus line that use it to access one of the several grocery stores on Barbur Blvd./Pacific Highway – why can’t local neighborhood bus routes serve the same purpose, and encourage less local, short-distance trips by transit instead of cranking the car?

  18. A quote from the Oregonian article read as follows: “About 1,500 commuters are projected to ride the rail each day in the first year, expected to increase to 4,000 by 2020, according to TriMet, the lead planning agency. But with more than 110,000 vehicles a day passing Oregon 217 and I-5, that translates to a small, possibly unnoticeable, reduction in traffic.”

    The number of lanes on highway 217 kind of goes back and fourth between four land six lanes between its two ends at the Sunset Highway (26) and I-5. If a person takes the 110,000 vehicles per day that travel the highway, and divide that number by six, the maximum number of lanes on any given stretch of the highway, the vehicles per day for each lane of travel is about 18,333. Dividing by four would provide even a higher average number of vehicles. Continuing on, if one new lane was added to the highway in each direction, the pair of new lanes could accommodate 26,666 vehicles, or 22,666 more people in 2020 than the rail project projections, even if only one person was in each vehicle. Furthermore, the new highway lanes would not require the millions of dollars each year in operating subsidies the rail project will need to keep rolling.

    From my own prospective, I support the concept of this kind rail project because it utilizes and upgrades existing infrastructure, and because of the suburb to suburb nature of the project rather than yet another project that just goes to downtown Portland. On the surface, a project like this should equate an efficient use of transportation funds. However, with a 117.4 million dollar price tag, like so many government funded transit projects, this project appears to be considerably overpriced for the benefit received. It barely makes a dent in the overall demand to move people and goods.

  19. What’s the over/under on first year ridership? Who thinks it will meet the projections?

    Personally, I welcome ANY federal money for ANY transportation projects in the region – rail, road, bike, ped, etc. We might as well enjoy our politicians and their ability to funnel funds to Oregon. (keeps me working too!)

    But the commuter rail project will be a colossal bust based on the benefits/costs involved. There is a reason it took Washington County so many tries to tweak the models to satisfy the FTA’s T-sub formula…

    I’m not saying we should be expanding 217 to accomodate future demand. Just that on a national level, there were dozens, if not hundreds, of far worthier projects that did not get funded because of this…and I’ve let David Wu know that.

    BTW: has anyone ODOT’s 2001 Rail Study:
    http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/RAIL/docs/railcapstudy.pdf

    I’d really like the pro-commuter rail folks to read it (or read it again if they have already done so) and let us know if that changes their mind about the feasibility of such systems. $1.5 – 1.7 billion for a separate passenger system (the study states the using the existing freight network is not possible) is quite a chunk of change. And that was in 2001 dollars…

  20. The math doesn’t look great on commuter rail if you compare the ridership of a freeway that runs 24 hours a day to a train that runs 4-5. You can’t look at average cost, you have to look at marginal cost: All the commuter rail customers are riding at rush hour, they aren’t distributed through out the day, where as only about 40% of 217 users are in rush hours. (Now personally I think they should run the train all day long, but people will just accuse me of being a railfan for saying that, so whatever.) So looking at the 18,333 per lane/day, that is 7300 per lane at rush hours, so adding the same capacity with more lanes would require about half of an additional lane, which would indeed run in the hundreds of millions…

  21. Lets look at the cost:

    Cost is “just less than $25” (Oregonian, August 2, 2005) per ride and the length is 14.7 miles (Trimet’s WCCR_Fact_Sheet_02-23-07.pdf). Do the division.

    If every rider rode the whole 14.7 miles:
    $25 /passenger / 14.7 miles = $1.70 per passenger-mile. And that is lowest it gets – if some of those rides are less than the 14.7 miles, the cost per mile is higher. For perspective:

    * Driving your cars costs about $0.25 per passenger-mile in the region (including road costs)
    * MAX costs about 1.11 per passenger-mile (with construction costs)
    * Average Trimet bus costs $0.835 per passenger mile (without road costs.)
    *Taxi fare = $2.10 per mile after ($2.50 boarding fee) but additional passengers are 1$, so if there are two of you, the taxi fare is $1.17 per passenger-mile.
    (see DebunkingPortland.com/Transit/Cost-Cars-Transit(2005).htm, click on links to see the data sources)

    Thanks
    JK

  22. I understand (and appreciate) the fact that our area strives to be “livable” compared to other cities of its size. I just don’t think they’re taking the right approach. I moved to Portland about a year ago from Beaverton. They have raised my rent over 10% after just 6 months and the next increase is going to be over 20%. I am afraid that in their attempt to be even more “livable” they are going to price many people out like me of the market. I have lived in Oregon my entire life. I think it would be a shame to force someone out who’s family has been here for 8 generations while others from Southern California and New England think they’re getting a “bargain”. Well they are used to outrageous living expenses, why force it upon those of use who have been here for much longer? Why is rent going up so much? Well the complex I live at is on 7th and Halsey, near Lloyd Center. The apartment complex, Cornerstone, said they have to raise rents because the streetcar is going to be coming to 7th and their property taxes are being raised significantly. That’s funny because I see my complex’s property on Karlock’s site that they have free property taxes for the next 10 years! Where is all the money going that these fraudsters are promoting? Certainly not into the bridges that are in need of renovations. I can post pictures if you would like how rusted the Broadway Bridge is. It looks like it hasn’t been painted for 10 years or longer! The only “fresh paint” I see is what was used to cover up the grafitti. Is there ANYWHERE I can live in the Porltand Metro area where this transit and densification obsession isn’t so prevalent? I love Portland — what I don’t like all these Quixitic ideas that are making it cost so much to live here. They can’t even take care of the huge vagrant problem – forcing all these vagrants to camp out on the transit lines and in the library. I even had one beg me for money in the freaking library the other day and another one tried to take my laptop when I wasn’t looking. In the Measure 37 debate many urbanites deride the rural landowner as being a “greedy developer” because all they want to allow others to share the rural landscape with them. Not everyone wants to live in the overpriced concrete urban areas and ride the slow streetcars down a couple blocks so they can get their lattes or go to Whole Foods market and pay 6x more for their food then they should. It seems to me the truly “greedy developers” are those benefiting on the backs of all of us who choose to live in the urban areas with their overbudget projects, endless feasibility studies, etc. How much has already been spent on this asinine “couplet” idea before it’s even started?

  23. Another question I have. Why do all these politicians talk up “federal funding” like it’s somehow free money for the taking? Granted, Oregon is a donor state, but they should be using FEDERAL money for statewide projects, not toy trains to take the yuppies in Pearl District down a few blocks to their nearest Starbucks.

  24. You can’t look at average cost, you have to look at marginal cost: All the commuter rail customers are riding at rush hour, they aren’t distributed through out the day,

    This applies to a lot of transportation investments. The question of what a trip costs “on average” is often a false comparison.

  25. Why do all these politicians talk up “federal funding” like it’s somehow free money for the taking?

    Because it comes from a far away place and to them, it essentially is free money. Neither them or their constituents have to directly pay for it, and the politicians in DC get to show off projects they’re making possible. If a local gov’t didn’t take the money it might go somewhere else and taxes wouldn’t go down.

  26. jim-

    wow, operating a car sure is cheap.

    oh, wait.

    does your operating cost include military actions in places like iraq, cia coups in iran, and the like? i hear those are kind of expensive.

    what about the financial cost of accidents and deaths? never mind that the cost is somewhat more visceral for those who loved those killed.

    then no, thanks. i don’t think i like cars so much.

  27. Hey Nick…

    Just to note. Just comparing average car prices to the $100 dollar cars JK gets leaves you with a vastly larger operating costs. If you start adding the extremely indirect stuff like “Iraqi Freedom” or whatever dumb oil grabbing operations to the bill… it’s cheaper to buy a few 747s and fly people from one end of town to the other than to operate a car.

    But then of course, airplanes actually are really inexpensive to operate, cars are just vulgarly expensive to keep and operate.

    …But I digress. If someone wants to live in a pro-car city there are lots of them out there. No one is forced to stay where they live – yet. Jacksonville, Tampa, Atlanta, and probably a good dozen other cities exist that are almost 100% pro-car. Roads stretching from every corner with multiple lanes and such.

    Portland is the one city that isn’t as large as Chicago, New York, or San Francisco, that has real choices with real urban living with in many cases, a similar or smaller tax burden. But with vastly more numerous lifestyle choices.

    Those pro-car cities though, in large part because of Portland, are turning more and more against the pro-car type lifestyle. People are starting to see, slowly but surely, that it is a morbid obsession we Americans have. Our mental health to our physical health to our pocket books have all suffered – not primarily because of the transportation choice – but because of the development associated with it.

    I’m with Nick… The car can stay in the lot until race day. 100% recreational or business service. No need to suck my life away driving around to maintain myself, my debt, and a degradation of life itself. I have far better things to do – like watch grass grow.

  28. Interesting that there is another post about the “State of Discussion” on this forum. Aren’t we talking about Washington County Commuter Rail here, or what?

  29. eric has a good point. i let myself be goaded by jim.

    sorry folks. i will keep it more or less on the topic next time.

  30. If the transit systems are “so great” as you all state they are, then let free market economics determine if they are as great as they are marketed! Make everyone pay the unsubsidized fares like they used to in the 50’s and see how many people ride them. This system is so 1800’s, very polluting and detrimental to the area’s livability.

  31. Greg: In the 1800’s, you couldn’t walk downtown without hip waders, because the combination of horse manure, dirt roads and a little bit of rain combined with wagons tires without fenders sprayed “mud” everywhere. We haven’t seen pollution like that in this country since the 1920’s, and our health system thanks us for it. You need to go to some third world country to see a 1800’s era transit system, but many third world countries have upgraded to old school buses which are standing room only all day long, so be careful which country you pick…

    But I’ll point out the complaints against SMART: First of all, they only have 4 routes, (plus the one they share with Salem,) so they have a hub and spoke system, (which is totally logical if that is all the routes you have to work with,) but that isn’t very efficient unless you are going to/from the hub. This is the same complaint people make about TriMet, except TriMet doesn’t actually have a true hub and spoke system, they have many routes that don’t go downtown, (the hub,) including this rail line. SMART’s hub is going to be the only train station they have, in other words, they are using the buses as a feeder network, (again, a common complaint against TriMet as well.) None of those bugs me personally, but when people complain about TriMet and point to SMART as a better system, it looks like they haven’t actually looked too closely at SMART…

    What bugs me about SMART is the lack of Sunday Service… It isn’t strictly that, but it is what that says about their system. Portland is a city where you can get around fairly well without a car, where you can use public transit as a transportation system, not just as a commuting system, and as long as you sleep between the hours of midnight and 5am, the buses are generally there when you want to use them. Yes, on Sunday in Portland it might take a little longer to make the same trip as during rush hour because the buses don’t run as often, but they still run. SMART is a commuting system, it shuts down at 8pm on weekdays, and the two lines with Saturday service run once an hour and shut down at 5pm. SMART is good for getting a few cars off the road at rush hour, but it isn’t really an “alternative” in the big scheme of things.

  32. Matthew –

    Thanks for those comments about the pros and cons of SMART vs. TriMet – that’s almost exactly what I wanted to say. You’ve saved me the trouble. :-)

    – Bob R.

  33. but when people complain about TriMet and point to SMART as a better system, it looks like they haven’t actually looked too closely at SMART…

    OK. Take a look at Tualatin (which, by the way, all Tualatin employers are required to pay TriMet payroll tax, and all Tualatin property owners are required to pay TriMet property tax), and get back to me on how TriMet serves Tualatin better than SMART serves Wilsonville.

    Let’s see what Tualatin has:

    1. Line 12, which cuts through the northwestern corner of Tualatin. 30 minute service on weekdays and hourly service on the weekends.

    (Line 94 also runs this route but makes no stops within Tualatin).

    2. Line 36, 37 and 38 – all of which are either Monday-Friday or Rush hour only service, which travel out of the Tualatin Park & Ride, east along Lower Boones Ferry Road, into Lake Oswego. Essentially serves no service within Tualatin.

    3. Line 76 serves Lower Boones Ferry Road, Martinazzi, and Sagert. 20-30 minute service except on Sundays/holidays, hourly service.

    4. Line 96 serves the Mohawk and Tualatin P&Rs with downtown Portland. Frequent service, but only during the general morning and evening commutes. Infrequent service south along Boones Ferry Road to Wilsonville.

    There is NO service on Nyberg Street, in the Clackamas County portion of Tualatin (except 76 to Meridian Park Hospital), on Borland Road, or on Tualatin Road, Hermann Road, Tualatin-Sherwood Road, Avery Street, or in the various neighborhoods west of Tualatin High School.

    So, what Tualatin has over Wilsonville is Sunday service on the 76, once an hour, southbound beginning at 9:05 AM and continuing through 7:12 PM (at Tualatin P&R) and northbound beginning at 7:09 AM and continuing through 6:35 PM (at Meridian Park Hospital).

    Let’s look at Saturday evening service: the last bus into Tualatin arrives at 9:48 PM. If you want to enjoy Portland’s nightlife (isn’t that part of “The Next Big Thing: We’re Live Downtown?) – you have to drive.

    By the way – TriMet isn’t equal to Portland. TriMet is the metropolitan transportation system. If TriMet doesn’t want to serve Tualatin or the other cities within its service district, Fred Hansen is welcome to draft a resolution before the TriMet Board to re-write the service boundaries to constrict itself to the City of Portland, and immediately stop collecting property and payroll taxes from us. Personally, I have given serious thought into the potential of suggesting Tualatin break off the TriMet district.

  34. Actually, Erik, you may have it backwards: If Tualatin does not like the level of service it receives from TriMet for the money paid in, the community is free to do as Wilsonville and Sandy have done and work out an arrangement to withdraw from TriMet and operate Tualatin’s own service.

    – Bob R.

  35. Erik, your point seems to be that because Tualatin has slightly better service via Tri-Met than Wilsonville does with SMART, they should break away from TriMet and form their own system? Or did I miss something. (Also, the TIP says that 76 is going to frequent service soon, the holdup seems to be building more sidewalks so that people can actually get to the stops in the first place…)

  36. (Also, the TIP says that 76 is going to frequent service soon, the holdup seems to be building more sidewalks so that people can actually get to the stops in the first place…)

    I can tell you point blank that such is not an applicable reason in Tualatin. For the entire route that line 76 runs in Tualatin, there is only one area (that is on Sagert over I-5) that has no sidewalks.

    On Lower Boones Ferry Road, there are sidewalks.

    On Boones Ferry Road, there are sidewalks.

    On Martinazzi, there are sidewalks.

    On Sagert (west and east of I-5), there are sidewalks.

    At Meridian Park Hospital, there are sidewalks.

    As for Tualatin having better service, no, that isn’t true. Tualatin is only “better” than Wilsonville in that there is a lone Sunday service.

    Wilsonville is better served geographically than Tualatin is, in terms of bus service throughout the city.

    TriMet has a RESPONSIBILITY to serve its area. However I think Tualatin is left with no choice but to do what Canby, Molalla, Sandy and Wilsonville has done, and that is to reject TriMet. Such would actually benefit the numerous employers that have chosen to reside in Tualatin, and would likely result in more growth in Tualatin due to lower employer taxes.

  37. “it isn’t really an “alternative” in the big scheme of things.”

    The alternative would be to eliminate these inefficient mass transit systems and give people who are truly destitute a “transit pass” on a service like Red Cross or Radio Cab. Tri-Met is a boondoggle. As is the Streetcar and most projects they do in Portland. I think comparing Portland to other cities is a sham, they are even worse but I would expect a little bit more intellect from Portland. As more people from far flung places, the denser and stupider we get. Not really SMART, is it?

    OK, I will build a stable in my Pearl Condo and ride my horse all over town. I see they still have the rings for them. Do I need a permit to park my horse? Would a ticket rider ticket me?

    Has anyone ever attempted this before?

  38. I’m a daily SMART rider. They do a reasonable job in most cases, but the situation with getting to downtown from WV is pretty crummy:

    You can:
    A) Take SMART 201 to Commerce Circle (free), and then hop on the Tri-Met 96 to downtown (all-zones). The problem with this is that the buses are timed such that SMART is scheduled to arrive sometimes just 3 minutes before the 96 departs. The 96 often departs early or SMART is late; so most of the time SMART riders get to watch the 96 depart before they even get to the bus stop!

    B) (this is what most people do) Take SMART, watch the 96 leave at commerce circle and then race it to Tualatin! ($1.25). Once you get to Tualatin, board the 96 _that you just missed at commerce circle_. The 96 takes the back-roads, whereas SMART 201 is direct down I-5. The problem with this is now you’re paying a Tri-Met fare _and_ a SMART fare, when if it were timed correctly you could have saved some money.

    So……I’d say that SMART does a reasonable job overall, but they definitely have some work to do!

    C) Take SMART 201 to Barbur TC, and then the 12 Barbur to downtown. This is very slow once you get to Barbur, since it’s not BRT.

    That said, my favorite thing about SMART BRT is that if I-5 is busy, they will radio each other, get off the highway and take the back roads instead of just sitting in traffic.

    – Max

  39. nick Jim-

    wow, operating a car sure is cheap.

    oh, wait.

    does your operating cost include military actions in places like iraq, cia coups in iran, and the like? i hear those are kind of expensive.
    JK: It does, to the same extent that buses and commuter rail do. You see, both of these use petroleum too. And MORE than small cars. see: DebunkingPortland.com/Transit/BusVsCarTEDB.htm

    nick what about the financial cost of accidents and deaths? never mind that the cost is somewhat more visceral for those who loved those killed.
    JK: Of course transit has accidents too. Light rail kills at over twice the rate of cars and buses are a bit safer than cars. For light rail, see DebunkingPortland.com/Transit/MAXSafetyChart.html

    nick then no, thanks. i don’t think i like cars so much.
    JK: You really should try one. Many people find that they increase their income and allow them more leisure time with their families. There are even some low income jobs programs that concentrate on getting people cars.

    Adron Says:
    Just to note. Just comparing average car prices to the $100 dollar cars JK gets leaves you with a vastly larger operating costs.
    JK: I used national average cost figures for cars, so the car used is the national average car, not some $100 car which would probably still be better than transit.

    Adron Says:…But I digress. If someone wants to live in a pro-car city there are lots of them out there. No one is forced to stay where they live – yet. Jacksonville, Tampa, Atlanta, and probably a good dozen other cities exist that are almost 100% pro-car.
    JK: Mister, I was born here, if you can’t say the same please stop the “get out of town if you don’t like what I am doing to it” crap. It’s not your private town.

    nick: eric has a good point. i let myself be goaded by jim.
    JK: I am not goading anyone, I am just pointing out the little details that the transit sales folk don’t tell you. They really are a bit like used car dealers. (And this is a thread about commuter rail.)

    Thanks
    JK

  40. JK: “I am not goading anyone”

    The definition of goading is “ceaseless prodding.” I think that your posts pretty much fit the bill.

    I would appreciate it if you would refrain from calling people names and telling people that what they are saying is “crap.”

    I am an Oregon native as well and in the part of Oregon I come from we were raised with better manners, no matter the degree of disagreement. Please don’t give us natives a bad name.

    Thanks.

  41. (ok, I promised but this is one LAST LAST post).

    JK – please get in touch with me. I want to get a group of disenfranchised native Portlanders together. You are perhaps 2x my age and even in *MY* short lifespan I’ve seen things degenerate. I just did an informal study of my own and walked around Lloyd and Downtown and just asked different people, “So how do you like Portland?” One gentleman said he moved here from MODESTO, CA and can’t wait to go back. Others varied from OK to “it’s terrible”. NOBODY said “I LOVE PORTLAND”. I think its pretty bad when one would long to move back to Modesto. I didn’t even dare share with him my opinion or he’d never hear the end.

  42. C) Take SMART 201 to Barbur TC, and then the 12 Barbur to downtown. This is very slow once you get to Barbur, since it’s not BRT.

    Depending on your timing, you can also catch a 94 from Barbur Blvd TC to downtown.

    However, there is no such thing as BRT in Portland; not even SMART.. There are express routes, but BRT doesn’t exist in Portland. The closest thing to BRT anywhere in the Pacific Northwest is the EmX route between Eugene and Springfield operated by LTD.

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