Apparently after the transit system was privatized in a Chinese town, the operator doubled fares. The result: rioting.
Still want to privatize TriMet?
Hat tip to Ellie Blue.
Apparently after the transit system was privatized in a Chinese town, the operator doubled fares. The result: rioting.
Still want to privatize TriMet?
Hat tip to Ellie Blue.
31 responses to “Aversion to Transit Privatization”
I could go for privatizing some services, but total privatization of transit should only happen once we build something worth privatizing. It is something I think should go for Amtrak, too. Right now, we do not. If gasoline prices make driving regularly unaffordable, then you might see transit be profitable, possibly without too much of a fare increase.
Now Denver has gradually been privatizing bus routes, under a state mandate, that was originally 20%, and now it is 50%. There is one group here that will fight it, that they do not have in China, the Amalgamated Transit Union(and other unions like the TWU, and UTU). The most recent Denver Transit Strike was a good example. It last one week, but the ATU Local that struck, only represented the drivers employed directly by the RTD, so about half the service was able to run. What Denver commuters missed was the Light Rail services, but that may soon see some competitive tendering, as they build more lines, they might have something worth contracting out. The Light Rail lines in Denver are operated by RTD employees right now.
Isn’t that what happened when TriMet took over the private Rose City Transit? Bus fares soon doubled?
We need a successful transit system that offers reliable service. We cannot build out our roads and highways to compensate for the number of people that would otherwise have to use our roads and highways. The fully encumber burden on all facets of society and our environment would be just to great.
A successful transit system is part of the balance, a 21st Century Transportation System any viable community needs. However when I say that, I also believe that we must provide for reasonable service levels with our road and highways.
If a segment of the population believes that to build needed roads and highways it is only possible with privatization, then lets privatize transit too!
I’m going to offer my personal experience on this one.
Government is supposed to be ‘of the people, by the people and for the people’. TriMet is none of the above.
Case in point: Today, my 30-minute interval bus service failed to show up. Now, I’m like the 70% of Portland residents that has a job, is required to be at work at a set time, faces sanctions from work if I don’t show up (tardies count)… This is not the first time that my bus has failed to show up and I doubt it’s the last.
I called TriMet ((503) 238-RIDE) to make sure it wasn’t some fluke with Transit Tracker, and after being shuffled around (the first person had no information) I was directed to the “complaint line” (imagine a company actually spending money on a “complaint line!) where I was told that a bus broke down at 9th and Burnside.
WHAT? 9th and Burnside? I’m in King City!! In my business, that would be the equivalent of having a neighborhood in Hillsboro that is without power because a transformer in Oregon City exploded.
The TriMet employee was indifferent to my situation and refused to do anything. (In my line of business if I did the same thing, I’d have a PUC complaint against me.) So, I grudingly walked along the side of the highway to wait for a shortline bus.
Since I can never count of TriMet to make anything right, I’ve resigned myself to the position that there has to be a better way. Privatization might be a start. The point of privatization wouldn’t be lower costs (the private operator would have to be guaranteed a profit, so the existing “subsidy” would remain) – but better and more reliable service.
Frankly, TriMet is fully capable of providing decent service; it has the tools necessary to do so; it chooses not to. Privatization might be the kick in the butt to force TriMet to compare itself with another operator, so that the public can choose who is providing a better public service.
Erik:
Well, before assuming that a private company could do much better you should take a look at the customer service levels at most airlines. Last October I was stranded in JFK for “weather-related reasons”, my flight was JFK-ORD-PDX, my aircraft was coming in from ORD. The only weather was in the South, but because they claimed it was a weather problem rather than mechanical I got stuck paying for my own hotel. The airline’s response: “We’re sorry, there’s nothing we can do.”
My point is that privatizing transit isn’t necessarily going to make your customer service issues go away. h
Doug –
Indeed… Earlier this month I flew to Austin, and the flight out of Portland to a Texas hub was delayed for over 2 hours due to a genuine (but minor) mechanical problem.
The passengers were forced to de-board because the repair process required powering down the plane, and the crew joined us in the gate area. The crew (including uniformed pilots for this airline) engaged in a very lively conversation with various folks about airline policy.
I won’t name the airline because I don’t want to get the crew into trouble — we were told that pilots don’t get paid for non-flight hours, so the 2+ hours of this delay were completely unpaid to the crew (and yet they were expected to serve passengers, at least while aboard, for no pay).
We learned that starting full-time pilots for this major airline can earn less than $20K per year and (here’s the stunner): It is actually written in their employment contracts that they are not allowed to wear their uniforms while collecting or using food stamps or other public benefits — the public must never see a poor airline pilot.
(I should mention that I was not upset about the actual delay – the problem was genuine and needed to be fixed, and the airline did get me where I was going relatively OK because there was another connecting flight to Austin.)
Now, from a “customer service” perspective, I guess this wasn’t so bad, but from a treatment-of-employees perspective it seriously concerned me.
– Bob R.
Big difference between JetBlue and TriMet:
TriMet has nearly 650 fixed-route busses and another 200+ LIFT mini-busses. Not to mention contracts with taxi companies. All in a 575 square mile area.
JetBlue has 123 aircraft nationwide and in the Gulf of Mexico.
TriMet has the ability to reroute busses within 30 minutes and often much sooner. If a JetBlue flight to Portland is cancelled, the nearest plane is at least five hours away. (It is NOT five hours to Merlo Garage from Tualatin.)
Both have the problem with running a hub-and-spoke system (Portland’s hub is downtown; JetBlue’s hub is JFK.) TriMet can very easily position replacement busses elsewhere, but chooses not to. Never mind that there are transit centers in Tualatin (the other side of Tualatin), Tigard, and Washington Square, where at least a dozen busses layover or pass through – those three transit centers are within 10 minutes of each other driving time.
Unlike JetBlue, TriMet is a monopoly and a poorly operated one at that. TriMet chooses what to operate well and what to “throw in the garbage”. If JetBlue offers poor service on a route, it’ll likely lose money and have to pull service or spend money to make the service better. Unlike TriMet, JetBlue has competition (I can fly Continental to Newark; and Delta is beginning JFK service very soon. Alaska flies to Boston, and of course there are numerous one-stops I can take to JFK.)
TriMet’s competition? My own car, and today’s experience has gotten me that much closer to adding another car onto Portland’s clogged highway system, emitting carbon dixode into the air – because I have no other choice. If I had a choice with a private bus company, I could choose someone else other than TriMet.
why did the old private systems go out of business? is this a settled historical issue?
from the little i have read, one reason they went out of business is that they were unable to fulfill their contracts, had unsafe trains/buses.
what has changed in our world that would make private transportation work this time?
“(imagine a company actually spending money on a “complaint line!)”
You must not own a cellular phone if you think this is unusual.
So TriMet has no competition? Did Rose City Transit? A private provider has less incentive than a public one to do a good job because it usually means eating into their profits. They will save money wherever they can – driver’s wages, maintenance, service, facilities, etc. Sure, the public is paying less for transit service, but it’s crap.
Airlines are a perfect example of this. Since deregulation, service has gone downhill, planes aren’t cleaned between flights, no more free meals, passengers stranded at airports. Flying is generally a pretty crummy experience these days. But it’s cheap.
You get what you pay for, folks.
My understanding is the city, in an effort to take control, ran Rose City Transit out of business by refusing fare increase requests.
Not to too long afterwards,not only did the fares go up but the Tri-Met payroll tax showed up.
I wonder how Rose City Transit would do today if they had the fares and taxes TriMet does?
I’ll guess much better than TriMet, by along shot.
Erik says:
“(imagine a company actually spending money on a “complaint line!)”
Your company doesn’t spend money on it’s complaint line, because it is actually run by the state… On one hand, it saves your company money, but on the other hand, you have a cost-plus rate system, so saving you money isn’t actually the name of the game, making your company big is what makes the shareholders rich. But, most companies keep their complaint line in house…
“My understanding is the city, in an effort to take control, ran Rose City Transit out of business by refusing fare increase requests.”
That’s a debatable point. This article I found on Rose City Transit suggests the company was poorly run. Ridership was declining, in part to more roads being constructed, but also because of poor service.
http://www.thebhc.org/publications/BEHonline/2005/thompson.pdf
Problems like this existed across America, which is partly why the Feds stepped in and created the Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964 so cities could provide a better level of service than they were getting with private providers.
When, Nuovorecord infers that when Private Transit entities did not do the job, (Which is party why the Feds stepped in) should be what they should do now with our road systems.
Metro and the City of Portland have trouble addressing the needs in our region. Both have sent letters to Metro placing them on notice.
Virtually NO plans or even recommendations exist to address congestion and lack of freight mobility problems on our primary I-5 and I-405 corridors through Portland. Apparently they cannot even come up with basic recommendations for solving the problems.
This is government at work, maybe its time we see what someone else can do with our needs.
You must not own a cellular phone if you think this is unusual.
Not only do I own TWO cell phones, I used to work for one of the top four cell phone companies. Hmmm…
Your company doesn’t spend money on it’s complaint line, because it is actually run by the state…
Do we have a “Department of Complaints”? No. Do we have a “Public Utilities Commission”? Yes.
Frankly, if you want to terminate the PUC, there’s the initative process. Have fun. Do we want complaints going to the PUC? No – the PUC has the ability to fine us.
So tell me, how is it in our interest to have to deal with the PUC? We do have employees that handle complaints but it’s not called a “complaint line”, and the individuals there have the ability to fix problems – unlike TriMet’s “complaint line” whose sole purpose is to field complaints but take no action.
In the year that I worked at my current employer, I have directed exactly ONE customer to that line. I’ve resolved many other issues myself – because I have the authority to fix most problems.
TriMet HAS the ability to fix problems; it chooses NOT to. A few years ago when I was a manager of a “second tier” support team (the people that fielded customer complaints), I chided my team for wanting to wait until our Thursday staff meeting to discuss customer complaints.
My response: “Why aren’t they being handled when the customer complains? The customer doesn’t want to wait up to seven days for a response!”
Three weeks later, I cancelled my staff meetings. Problems aren’t fixed in meetings and brainstorming sessions, they’re fixed in real-time. The number of escalations to the third-tier dropped, the costs incurred by the third-tier dropped, and customer satisfaction went up. Has TriMet’s management considered spending more time outside of the Ivory Tower on 17th Avenue, and more time in the field? After all, they have a nice fleet of big Ford trucks and Explorer SUVs (of which are on the road, and mostly single-occupant vehicles, mind you…)
Before we consider transit privatization, it needs to make economic sense to run transit. To start, charge motorists for parking, pollution and other things that they use but don’t directly pay for. The goal is to get more people to ride, specifically those who don’t need to ride. Without having to satisfy a critical mass of choice riders (real customers), a private operator might just “throw it in the garbage” too.
Moreover, more riders might also justify more service and back-up buses/operators.
Last time I checked, I don’t live in a totalitarian country that discriminates and persecutes political activists and those wanting democracy – nor do I live in such a poor nation, either. Notice that it didn’t happen in Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong or Guanzhou – but a city in the poorer interior of China.
The raising of their bus fare was likely just one straw among many that was breaking their back.
Erik, you managed a complaint department? You said:
“A few years ago when I was a manager of a “second tier” support team (the people that fielded customer complaints)“ (Emphasis mine.)
So you can’t believe that Tri-Met would have a complaint line, but your company had a whole department dedicated to complaints, (and then apparently another department after yours to manage the ones that your department couldn’t handle?) Tri-Met must be doing great if they only have one line dedicated to that.
Also, before you were there, it took up to 7 days to resolve complaints? Put that into perspective, Tri-Met would have solved your problem this morning in 30 minutes, even if you’d just stood in the same place and not done anything at all.
(And no, I’m exactly suggesting we get rid of the PUC, I’m suggest that we get rid of the part that has the built in 10% profit margin, and make the city run it, which would mean that electricity would cost about 10% less. But it is no secret that I’m a socialist.)
In 2 years of riding Tri-Met, I’ve had one major problem on MAX, (the line was partly shut down,) and they were shuttling people on buses around it, which made me about 20 minutes late to work, (although I got some girl’s phone number out of that trip. I think that says a lot about me: I can be pleasant enough to be around even when things aren’t going my way, where as the people that complain a lot mainly are annoying.) And 3 times I’ve been on trains that were a few minutes later than they should have been, but never actually late enough to cause any real problems, (always late at night, they were single tracking parts of the system because they were working on the other side.) Buses: which I tend to only ride when I’m tired or the weather is really nasty, (otherwise I bike,) I’ve had a 2 break down, only to have the bus driver get out, fiddle with them, and then get them started again, for a delay of about 3 minutes each, (which was made up for in route, and didn’t result in the bus actually being late.) Bicycling: I blew a tire one day, changed it, and then missed my train, so I had to take the next train, (10 minutes later,) which made me 8 minutes late to work, (instead of 2 minutes early,) only to discover that the person leading the meeting that I was supposed to be at, was stuck on the freeway behind a giant piece of concrete that had fallen off a truck, and didn’t have a clue when they would be in… My experience driving, was that I was at least 15 minutes late about once a month because of significantly worse than average traffic, (including one time when I was half an hour late to a job interview, that I was expecting to be half an hour early to when I left.) And then there were the 2 times that my car didn’t start at all, and I took the day off, (using up my vacation time,) to get it towed, and then sit around the shop for a few hours until they even bothered to look at it…
Maybe you should find someplace to live with a better bus line, there is a bus within 2 blocks of my house 11 times/hour during rush hour, and I still bicycle most days…
sorry, more questions.
what are the efficiencies of private companies that don’t compete in a market anyway? is the profit motive supposed to make them more efficient?
i totally understand private business taking over when you can create a reasonable market, but i have trouble thinking of what the benefit when you cant.
building risky infrastructure? maybe that. i dunno. having trouble thinking of any.
Maybe you should find someplace to live with a better bus line, there is a bus within 2 blocks of my house 11 times/hour during rush hour, and I still bicycle most days…
When you can find an apartment with 850 square feet, two bedrooms, in a safe environment, for under $750 a month with better bus access, give me a call.
BTW, my wife works in Beaverton and I work downtown, so the apartment needs to be located within that area. And my son’s day care is in Tigard.
Winston Says:
My understanding is the city, in an effort to take control, ran Rose City Transit out of business by refusing fare increase requests.
Bob T:
That is correct – a five cent fare increase was
not permitted by the city council. Afterwards,
when Tri-Met was formed, not onky did the riders
pay more but non-riders have been paying as well, ever since.
Don’t know or can’t say that Rose City would be
doing a good job or better job were they still around. That’s not the only issue. What irks me is when those who are irrationally paranoid about free enterprise refer to a business like Rose City and call it a “free enterprise failure” without knowing, caring, or taking into account the fact thyat it couldn’t even charge what it wanted for the cost of a ride. These are the same people who think meat inspection was forced on the meat packing industry and that the industry fought it tooth and nail. The truth doesn’t fit their world view so they never learn it.
Bob Tiernan
Winston Says:
My understanding is the city, in an effort to take control, ran Rose City Transit out of business by refusing fare increase requests.
Bob T:
That is correct – a five cent fare increase was
not permitted by the city council. Afterwards,
when Tri-Met was formed, not onky did the riders
pay more but non-riders have been paying as well, ever since.
Don’t know or can’t say that Rose City would be
doing a good job or better job were they still around. That’s not the only issue. What irks me is when those who are irrationally paranoid about free enterprise refer to a business like Rose City and call it a “free enterprise failure” without knowing, caring, or taking into account the fact thyat it couldn’t even charge what it wanted for the cost of a ride. These are the same people who think meat inspection was forced on the meat packing industry and that the industry fought it tooth and nail. The truth doesn’t fit their world view so they never learn it.
Bob Tiernan
i’ve also read that rose city transit was unable to meet federal air standards and was unwilling to meet safety requirements.
is there a good source of info to settle this issue as to how rose city went out of business?
Privatizing public transit is discrimination and unethical unless ALL forms of transportation and the infrastructure that supports it either a) also become privatized or b) ALL users are forced to pay the actual cost of the transportation they use.
To force transit riders to pay market rate for transportation (cost of operation plus profit) but to also continue to provide massive taxpayer paid subsidies, bailouts, and tax breaks to automobile related industries thereby subsidizing the costs associated with driving a personal automobile is not only discrimination against other modes of transit, but would continue to perpetuate the social engineering agenda of automobile-only advocates.
Regarding Rose City Transit, I’ve also read that the union was wanting higher pay and was unwilling to continue without it. And while the issue may officially have been only over a nickel increase, I strongly believe that the city council saw “the writing on the wall”–that Rosy would need even more nickels in the future.
Overall, it is doubtful that Rosy could have continued, seeing that there are very few, if any, private public transit operators today. And as late as 1978, TriMet fare was a flat 40 cents.
Privatizing public transit is discrimination and unethical unless ALL forms of transportation and the infrastructure that supports it either a) also become privatized or b) ALL users are forced to pay the actual cost of the transportation they use.
Well, then what should we do about LIFT – it’s privatized. As well as the Portland Airport shuttles; most school bus operations; Corvallis’ entire transit system…?
Privatization, in my view, does not mean a total elimination of the government role in transit. It means that the government regulates, but doesn’t operate, the transit system. The private operators are responsible for the day-to-day service; the government continues to ensure that fares and service are non-discriminatory.
By the way, if you’re opposed to privatization, then you better be opposed to Washington County Commuter Rail. The Commuter Rail trains will be operated by Portland & Western Railroad – not TriMet employees; the dispatcher is a P&W employee as well; and so is the track maintenance. TriMet isn’t building the line, Stacy & Witbeck is. Sounds pretty darn privatized to me, doesn’t it?
Erik: Define Safe. You aren’t going to get a gated community on that budget, but gated communities aren’t by definition safe anyways, (the crimes are just better planned. In poorer neighborhoods, the crimes are of opportunity.) However, many people’s definition of safe isn’t actually rational, so I need to know what yours is…
Anyways, I own a 2 bedroom house, slightly smaller than that, my mortgage is less than that, (and I get to take a lot of it off on my taxes too.) I’ve never been robbed, (there. I’ve been robbed other places in town.) But my neighbors&I don’t tend to have a lot of money, (if we did, it wouldn’t be in your price range, would it?) I live in North Portland, across the street from “The Projects,” (850 units of them to be exact.) But people watch out for each other, there is someone around on the streets of my neighborhood almost all the time, and that is what makes it safe… There is also a brand new elementary school a couple blocks away, (the only one in the city,) and most of my neighbors have kids that play in their front yards from daylight until about 10pm. And I work in Beaverton, so the commute both to downtown and to Beaverton is very doable by public transit, although the return trip from Beaverton by car is bad because the freeways are all clogged up in the afternoon, so you end up on surface streets and it takes longer than just taking Tri-Met. (I don’t have any children, so childcare has never been something I’ve had to worry about, although I do understand that good childcare typically has a waiting list…)
Now, the problem is, it is North Portland, so it got a bad reputation 20 years ago, (which no longer applies, but a lot of people still think it does,) and whites make up a minority there, so as I said: define safe…
No, I don’t expect a gated community.
All I ask for is a community where I am generally free of crime (crime exists everywhere, but I don’t want to hear gunshots on a routine basis), a neighborhood where my son can play and ride his tricycle, and neighbors who care about their homes and their neighborhoods (in other words I don’t want the area overrun by people with trashed cars on their lawn, drug dealers, sex crimes overtly occurring)…
My son has a good child care center in Tigard that is also affordable (about $500 less than the “chain” child care centers that are prevalent everywhere).
Right now my wife has a convenient 10 minute drive to work – living in North Portland would at least triple her commute, and my bus pass is paid for. Neither of our jobs are easily relocatable nor can either of us have the option of telecommuting (her job in particular, federal law sort of discourages her work outside of a controlled environment). So changing jobs is not a reasonable option, and teleworking is not an option.
We don’t have 20% to put down towards a new home (not to mention we just got hit with an emergency bill that took out a good amount of savings.) So we are forced to rent – which we don’t mind for the time being.
So, living in North Portland (of which I recognize there are some good areas – but again where is the affordable rental properties that don’t require me to be “poor”?) would result in an increase in transportation costs, having to commute on freeways (right now my wife’s commute is largely on side streets, with a segment on 99W), and having to adjust our son’s child care situation…
Now do you understand that I pay just as much for TriMet as the next person; I shouldn’t have to settle for second-rate public transit?
I made long-term complaints on TRIMET, so I had sent to my Senator and Federal Transit done. I am worst upgrade third-degree longest-excessive complaints on public transit extension to Airport from Vancouver Mall on I-205, articulated buses, expresses from these transit agencies. In addition, I support Heavy Rail in Number One then add Light/Commuter Rails in SW Washington includes Grand Blvd stops in Vancouver to Camas extended to eastbound to White Salmon & The Dallas, OR, and north to Battleground along I-205; and Kelso formal recommendations. Eventually, TRIMET and CTRAN never listen me in regard of invitation and information about heavy, light, Commuter Rails, and subway system status in their planning and they did not inviting or take me to their site. They did not invite or give me tour into their rail maintenance facility. I know that most transit drivers made bad rude to me when I boarded and took off their bus vehicle. Local transit providers do not interst & lot of hurting lead into me. Thanks.
Try privatizing any government owned bureaucracy in Oregon and you’ll get rioting. Not likely to happen here because for people here in Oregon, government is their GOD.
Erik:
I’ve never heard a gunshot, (here. Again, I have in other places in the city.) Mainly what I hear at night it train horns, (most of North Portland is within a mile of a railroad track.) There are no cars on anyone’s lawn, mainly what is parked on lawns in my neighborhood are tricycles. More than half my neighborhood rents, but you don’t need to put 20% down to get a house anyways, (I certainly didn’t,) although I don’t know how much longer that will last, that is what the entire sub-prime financial blowout is about. True, it will triple your wife’s commute, it doubled mine, (I was renting someplace that was about a mile from my office, so I was walking,) but it is a completely painless commute. This morning I wasn’t feeling well, so I took the bus for the first&last leg, and aside from some kids that didn’t know the MAX system, so I gave them direction, I spent most of the trip reading a book.