Streetcar Vehicle Pipeline


Update: The vehicles are apparently snowed in in Wyoming. Earliest possible arrival is Monday.

Two pieces of news on new Streetcar Vehicles:

  • Cars 8, 9 and 10 are almost here from the Czech Republic! Cars 8 and 9 landed in Baltimore just after Christmas and car 10 cleared customs in NJ on New Year’s Eve (significant because we had a congressional tarrif waiver that expired at the end of the year). They are now on trucks headed across the contintent. They are likely to unload at the maintenance facility this weekend. If I can get an exact time, I’ll post an update.
  • Finally (don’t get me started on Federal purchasing requirements), the City of Portland has posted an intent to award (PDF, 88K) for the prototype domestic Streetcar. Yes, Oregon Ironworks is the awardee.

19 responses to “Streetcar Vehicle Pipeline”

  1. “They are now on trucks headed across the contintent.”

    That to me is also hilarious. So UP and BNSF wouldn’t carry those across country for ya? They should be able to be shipped flat car at about 2-3k a pop. I KNOW that isn’t how much it costs to run em’ on a tractor trailer.

    Yes, Oregon Ironworks is the awardee.

    So that means future cars (after 8, 9, and 10) will be built in country. So hopefully that would mean quality would be enhanced, maintenance would decrease, and hopefully a huge chunk of money would get knocked off the price.

    …or am I wrong in my assumption?

  2. So hopefully that would mean quality would be enhanced, maintenance would decrease, and hopefully a huge chunk of money would get knocked off the price.

    Our experience of the quality and maintainability with the Czech cars has been pretty good. As to price, clearly we get an advantage on duty and shipping. OIW is clearly going to have to come up the experience curve (tooling, expertise, etc.) so I suspect they’ll be subsidizing the first few cars as they try to penetrate the market.

    And OIW’s hourly labor costs are a signficant multiple of those in Ostrava.

    I would expect time to delivery to be better. The production schedules in the Czech Republic have seemed pretty long.

    The big, big win is benefiting the local economy and keeping the dollars in ciculation here.

    If we get a comparable car at a comparable price, but can get it faster and stimulate the local economy, I’m going to be very happy!

  3. I hope you don’t mind me telling a story that’s only tangentially related to the topic. About 7 years ago I was on a road trip from Portland to Salt Lake City, I stopped at a gas station somewhere in northern Utah, and got out of my car to fill it up. I noticed something out of the corner of my eye as I filled up the tank, but couldn’t figure out what was unusual. Then I took a closer look, and it turns out that there are 4 or 5 new Trimet buses at the commercial pumps across the way.

    I was sorely tempted to wait until one of the drivers came back, pull out $1.75 and ask for an all zone ticket.

  4. What exactly do we (Portland) get for $3,200,000?

    Just to recap, we (TriMet actually as the grantee agency) got an Federal earmark of $4M for development of a domestic Streetcar prototype. TriMet in turn contracted with the City of Portland to do the purchasing, and they just awarded the contract to OIW.

    Portland Streetcar will get the prototype vehicle.

    By way of comparision, the current set of Czech vehicles are on the order of $2.5M each. But of course OIW will have lots of startup costs (far more than the $700K differential).

  5. I still think ya’ll ought to take what New Orleans did, apply a redesign on the outer shell, get rid of the articulation, cut a little bit of space, and have them come in at just slightly more expensive than a regular bus.

    Because if one includes ALL direct costs assocaited with the two, Streetcars are definately a better deal over a 20+ year time span, and especially with environmental conditions of winter getting colder (icy) and summer getting hotter the Streetcar has a better chance staying in service along routes more so than busses (at least from what I’ve seen with the Portland Streetcar experience.

    My whole point of getting costs and prices under control though, is one simple fact.

    I’d really, really, really, really, really like to see some decent frequencies in the range of 5-10 minutes during the busy parts of the day. Smaller streetcars would also decrease the need to run the larger cars we currently have in service.

    Being that Portland Streetcar doesn’t go by the same odd ball federal regs that busses go by one would think have a smaller size car (just take out the articulation) would be much more economical during slow hours. Thus more cars, more frequency, more service, and better adapted to demand… even though it infinite with the price being free to negligible. If price becomes a concern than a smaller car with more frequency would be much easier than the current one’s to deal with actually recouping some of the operating costs via farebox.

  6. Headways are driven by operating dollars to pay the drivers, not by the cost of the vehicles. And the sources we use to by the vehicles in general cannot be reapplied to operating.

  7. OIW has begun a joint venture with Cascade General to build barges here on Swan Island. I had heard that Streetcar production might be down here somewhere as well. Any news on that front? We got rail, river and freeway access with plenty of cranes, etc. at the shipyards.

  8. “Headways are driven by operating dollars to pay the drivers, not by the cost of the vehicles. And the sources we use to by the vehicles in general cannot be reapplied to operating.”

    I understand that we’re limited by the socialistic principles inshrined in the current transportation industry… but I just want to be a simple consumer of service and recieve proportional service to what I am willing to pay for.

    But I digress, it’s a dead horse. I’m just pining opinions on possible solutions.

    As for operating dollars. Flat $1.50 fare, or $2.00 bucks, or SOMETHING. We need some frequency during rush hour etc. U know it, I know it, the riders know it… most of them not understanding why there isn’t more service more often. I hear it opined all the time at Streetcar stops. I cordially instruct them on the way of the world of Government/non-profit/city financing and say Portland Streetcar is working diligently on increasing headways.

    At that point they usually are horribly confused, and restate their original premise that they wish the Streetcar would be more frequent.

  9. Adron, that seems like a pretty mean thing to do to those poor riders – instructing them about how the government works! Hardly the kind of ordeal of what someone on their way home would want to go through.

  10. Bill, Adron –

    The most constructive thing Streetcar riders can do to demand more frequent service is to write to the Streetcar board and to Commissioner Adams’ office.

    Squeaky wheel gets the grease, and all that.

    – Bob R.

  11. No, we still have to do burn-in under the warranty procedure.

    As a result, the vehicles are unlikely to be in service in time for the crush on the weekend the tram opens.

    We had hoped…

  12. Bill Says:

    Adron, that seems like a pretty mean thing to do to those poor riders – instructing them about how the government works! Hardly the kind of ordeal of what someone on their way home would want to go through.

    Mean? Tell people the truth? Mean? Are you kidding me. I hope hat was sarcasm. I really really really hope that was sarcasm.

    People reap what they sow. uh. :|

  13. Hey Chris…

    What exactly is the Warranty? How many years, what does it cover?

    Btw – what happens if say, there is an earth quake and part of I-5 falls on a Streetcar and destroys it. Are they insured for natural disasters and such?

    Also – if an 18 wheeler inadvertantly plows into a pole and tosses the whole grid, what’s the ETA on return to service?

    I’m curious about some of these things. I’d hate to see any of these things happen, but sometimes they do.

  14. Adron, I don’t know the answers to those, except possibly the last. We had something take out catenary wires on Naito and it was hours not days before we got it repaired (and the grid has segments).

  15. Chris, how many paid boardings would a streetcar need on a single loop to cover its operating costs? I know that with most of the system operating in Fareless Square, the vast majority of riders board free, but if they didn’t — could peak-hour ridership cover peak-hour operating costs?

  16. djk, I should have a better sense of that as we develop revenue estimates for The Loop, at least half of which is outside Fareless Square.

    The initial estimate I have seen shows about a 1/3 of operating costs recovered at the farebox.

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