Via Streetsblog:
A study in Vancouver, B.C. found that merchants perceived that a much higher percentage of customers arrive via auto than actually do.
Obviously this will vary tremendously by type of business (Jiffy Lube probably doesn’t get much walk-in business), but this matches my own experience in doing neighborhood transportation advocacy. Merchants tend to cling stubbornly to modal policies that may not actually serve them best.
28 responses to “How Much Do Businesses Depend on Auto Traffic? Less than They Think”
I’m betting 95+% at Wallmart, Costco, Winco & Home Depot.
Those are the low cost shopping places.
Maybe 90% at Fred Meyer, Safeway etc.
Sure neighborhood stores & downtown may be different, but that is not where most people shop.
And people don’t bike, walk or transit to get a week’s worth of groceries, a 2×4 or a new chair.
So this is just more new urbanism propaganda.
Thanks
JK
I walk, bike and/or transit to get all my groceries, and have brought furniture to my place by foot from nearby stores. I haven’t needed a 2×4 in a while, but there is a hardware store near me, so that wouldn’t be a problem. Does that mean I’m not a person, or that you’re wrong?
Could be much truer in Vancouver than in other BC towns and cities. Especially in the winter (Oct.- June).
when i have been carless, i have walked miles to hardware stores to buy 2x4s, CMUs, bags of dirt etc. just used one of those little carts. not really a big deal. less annoying than sitting in traffic.
Once I got a pair of these folding bike racks:
http://www.bicyclewarehouse.com/product/wald-rear-folding-bike-basket-11829.htm
…I could grab a couple overstuffed bags of groceries whenever I was biking around. Between those beauties and the fact that I make a point of living within a half mile or so of a grocery store – and despite the fact that I have a car, and I drive it when I feel like it – it’s been years since I’ve used a car to get groceries.
Not saying it works for everyone, just pointing out people do in fact do this.
And because lumber never fits in my hatchback all that well, I’ve seriously considered getting a long bike trailer for the express purpose of transporting large and bulky purchases, 2x4s among them. :)
While most of us have anecdotal experience or opinions strongly held, surely none of us would make judgments about people’s shopping habits without real hard data, right?
The point of this post (and the referenced study) is NOT what is the mix of modes for a given business. The point is that the business owners consistently mis-perceive the mix with a bias toward overestimating auto use.
most people who walk to grocery stores dont buy a months worth of groceries once a month, they shop daily or almost daily and only buy a bag worth of items. some people can’t comprehend life outside of their car.
Yep, people just assume that weekly or monthly shopping trips are the way the universe works, rather than an artifact of a car-centered lifestyle. I live in walking distance of 2 grocery stores and biking distance of 2 more. I just buy a few things at a time every few days, usually just whenever I’m passing by the store. It’s very liberating compared to the old days of planning out a really long and expensive shopping trip. For furniture and bigger items Zipcar works really well, and many stores have delivery service. I’m not surprised by this study–businesses are always obsessed with keeping all their on-street parking right in front, then do just fine after it is removed.
zefwagner Says: I live in walking distance of 2 grocery stores and biking distance of 2 more.
JK: How do their prices compare with Winco or Walmart?
How much could you save per year by driving to lower cost stores?
Thanks
JK
The Vancouver study involved merchants who perceived that they lost car access as a result of the bikeway. Does their bias prove anything beyond the Endowment effect?
JK: How do their prices compare with Winco or Walmart?
For a lot of people, pricepoint isn’t everything, especially for goods like food. For those on a very limited budget, sure, but that’s by no means the majority of residents.
Consider the opposite: why would I drive across town to shop for groceries when there are two stores within walking distance? What if one of those stores made a point of selling locally-sourced meat and produce?
(This is off-topic but) People can value other things besides price. And if buying nearby can save the cost of owning a vehicle, higher prices might not end up being so higher.
As for the topic, the stores probably like to err on the side of caution and are worried about losing sales.
Jeff F Says: Consider the opposite: why would I drive across town to shop for groceries when there are two stores within walking distance?
JK: Because a mega-store has a much wider variety of food choices.
Jeff F Says: What if one of those stores made a point of selling locally-sourced meat and produce?
JK: Walmart carries local meat and produce. So does Winco. Why do you bring up such an obvious fallacy?
Thanks
JK
JK: Because a mega-store has a much wider variety of food choices.
A wider variety of good? You’re joking, right?
JK: Walmart carries local meat and produce. So does Winco. Why do you bring up such an obvious fallacy?
There is no fallacy, jk. The nearby store carries locally sourced produce, fish, poultry and meat. That is hardly a fallacy. They also treat their employees very well, and service is very fast. Again, no fallacy.
It was good to hear that Walmart recently began purchasing produce from local farmers. Kudos to them for beginning to understand the different factors that drive demand.
JK: Because a mega-store has a much wider variety of food choices.
A wider variety of good? You’re joking, right?
JK: Walmart carries local meat and produce. So does Winco. Why do you bring up such an obvious fallacy?
There is no fallacy, jk. The nearby store carries locally sourced produce, fish, poultry and meat. That is hardly a fallacy. They also treat their employees very well, and service is very fast. Again, no fallacy.
It was good to hear that Walmart recently began purchasing produce from local farmers. Kudos to them for beginning to understand the different factors that drive demand.
A wider variety of good? You’re joking, right?
JK: Nope! A 30,000 sq ft Winco or Walmart has thousands more items that the 3000 sq ft neighborhood store. Look it up. Prices lower too because of economies of scale. Stock is fresher too because of higher turnover.
Just the frozen food section of some of these stores is ½ the size of a neighborhood store. Not to mention the many isles of canned food. (You probably don’t know that frequently canned food is nutritionally better than fresh, in part because they don’t have to be picked while green to allow ripening during shipping.)
Thanks
JK
Mega-stores are big because of volume, jk, not because of variety.
Locally farmed vegetables don’t get picked “green”, either. The whole point of “locally sourced” is that produce doesn’t get pick early and doesn’t spend time in transit. It also tastes better than processed fruits and vegetables.
It’s been awhile since I’ve wandered through a Walmart, though. I think I’ll get into the one on 82nd soon and check out the food.
Jeff F Says: It’s been awhile since I’ve wandered through a Walmart, though. I think I’ll get into the one on 82nd soon and check out the food.
JK: That’s not a real Walmart. Their food section is tiny and they are NOT open 24 hours.
Go to a real Walmart: at the North end of the I205 bridge – take the Mill Plain exit, Stay in left lane under Mill plain, cross over I205, turn right at first opportunity (after the freeway entrance.) That is a real Walmart without Portland planner’s interference. (No sales tax to Oregonians.)
While you’re there don’t forget to check out all the Chinese made merchandise carrying major American brands – the same stuff as carried by all major retailers (and most smaller ones.)
I don’t recall seeing a bike rack at that store, but they do have a lot of Oregon license plates in their parking lot, have decently wide spaces and allow initiative petitioners on their property.`
You can also still get plastic bags and no bottle deposit!
As you exit, be sure to fill up at the Arco to avoid feeding money to Portland’s anti car cabal. (Or you can use your VISA card at the Fred Meyer on the East side of I205 (first left – 24 hr self service.)
Thanks
JK
JK:
Go to a large Safeway and see how many “varieties” of fruits and vegetables they have.
They are highly limited, especially the varietal and seasonal items.
If you like big-box stores so much, feel free to live next to one. We all know you won’t because you probably want to have a stable property value.
Volume does not equate to selection. You’ve grossly conflated the two concepts.
ws: Go to a large Safeway and see how many “varieties” of fruits and vegetables they have.
JK: Who was talking “varieties” of fruits and vegetables? I was talking of ALL food items, not just one category.
Thanks
JK
Oh great, at Wal-Mart you have 6 different brands of sodas to choose from but probably couldn’t even buy fresh Kale.
Okay, JK, you got me.
And good luck finding the more exotic varieties of Doritos at the smaller stores! I don’t think anyone was really arguing that there are less SKUs at WalMart than many places with smaller footprints.
Sometimes living carless downtown, there’s general stuff I can’t easily/affordably find nearby and it’s a little annoying. I’ll be happy if the Target thing goes through. I’d be happier if there were just more smaller non-box retail shops that sell boring stuff, electronics, etc. I would be pretty not happy if the area got coverted into east Vancouver.
The only place I shop at that requires a car is Costco, everything else I buy locally on foot in NW Portland or order via the internet.
I think the downtown businesses that are under the impression they need auto traffic are completely wrong.
Not so sure about the fancy places on 23rd, they probably need the auto traffic since the only people that shop there are tourists.
“Sometimes living carless downtown, there’s general stuff I can’t easily/affordably find nearby and it’s a little annoying. I’ll be happy if the Target thing goes through. I’d be happier if there were just more smaller non-box retail shops that sell boring stuff, electronics, etc. I would be pretty not happy if the area got coverted into east Vancouver.”
Well, once your apartment gets to be too small, try building our own home in downtown Portland. I suppose if you have a $250,000 guaranteed annual income you can move into the west hills. Many people have chosen our present communities because of affordability.
And I’m not saying that the system can’t change.
Right now, to keep living for very long, in comfort, in any downtown of a major city you:
1. Are a corporate climber
2. Have a substantial inheritance awaiting you, or trust fund.
3. Have a profitable—but very nefarious— business
4. Are mentally or physically ill and living in subsidized housing
5. Are a committed minimalist
“And people don’t bike, walk or transit to get a week’s worth of groceries, a 2×4 or a new chair.”
Sometime I drive my car and get a lot of groceries. Sometimes I walk or take the bus and get just a few things. I’ve never bought a 2×4 in my life. I buy new chairs every maybe every ten years.
I reject much of the urbanist agenda, but also your suburbanist one. I don’t see why transportation, of all things, needs to be so either/or.
ryan Says: I don’t see why transportation, of all things, needs to be so either/or.
JK: It isn’t. The only issue is why we should subsidize 80% of the transportation costs for most of Trimet’s riders, the “choice riders” who are NOT transit dependent.
And why you will finally admit that the US Department of Transportation is correct when they say Interstate road users pay MORE than their cost.
Same for Tom Rubin, CFO, CPA analysis of local roads.
Thanks
JK
“And why you will finally admit that the US Department of Transportation is correct when they say Interstate road users pay MORE than their cost.”
I need admit no such thing, because motorists are deeply subsidized, as are transit users.
PS, fresh food is better for you than canned food.