Streetcar Demand 10x Available Funding


A while back, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced that FTA was setting aside $130M to fund Streetcar projects around the nation. That’s on top of the Streetcar funding made available under the TIGER grants.

Streetsblog is reporting that more than $1.1B in applications for that pot of money have been received.

Nice to be popular. Let’s hope that translates into lots of job at Oregon Iron Works and sub-contractors.


22 responses to “Streetcar Demand 10x Available Funding”

  1. Imagine the job creation if we built transit buses of all kinds in the City of Portland. I think someone once said here that there’s a company that could if they wanted to (or could build more if they received the demand), all they’d need is the orders.

    Even more cities have ready-to-go systems based on buses and have buses serve more of their metropolitan areas than rail.

    Heck, we could come up with a “Green Bus” that runs on various alternative energy sources and claim it as a “Portland Original!” We’d be famous throughout the world all over again!

  2. “Heck, we could come up with a “Green Bus” that runs on various alternative energy sources and claim it as a “Portland Original!” We’d be famous throughout the world all over again!”

    Oak Ridge National Laboratories has come up with a bus design that does use alternative energy—-electricity. It is also significantly lighter in weight than a conventional bus. And it is also a low floor design, which means it could have a second level and is handicapped accessible. I first saw the article on Science Daily:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080728192944.htm

    But since it was developed during the Bush administration and is not part of a horrendously expensive federal stimulus package it probably would not be popular on this blog. Kudos to Tri Met for its natural gas powered buses. Could buses such as C-Tran’s Hybrids, be switched from diesel to Natural gas? Seems like they would be pretty clean.

  3. Tri-Met has had a few; I think they are still in operation. They did not make a commitment to utilize very many, though.

  4. I think they used to have some. There was a “bus fan” page at one time that said there were some 1800s that were powered by natural gas but were retired when replacement fuel pumps were no longer available.
    And I think the old 1700 “art” buses are/were powered by propane.

    Cherriots in Salem/Keizer has CNG buses currently in operation.

  5. But since it was developed during the Bush administration and is not part of a horrendously expensive federal stimulus package it probably would not be popular on this blog.

    Knock it off, Ron. Make your point without trying to (incorrectly and undeservedly) insult most of the people here.

  6. Knock it off, Ron. Make your point without trying to (incorrectly and undeservedly) insult most of the people here.

    I had a less tactful comment in mind, but thank you for already addressing the topic.

  7. [Moderator: Complaint about moderator bias removed. Ron, if you can’t behave when asked, you are more than welcome to go blog somewhere else. This is a moderated forum and you are subject to our rules and the direction of moderators. Deal with it. – Bob R.]

  8. IIRC…Trimet operates 2 New Flyer diesel-electric busses. They appearently have not lived up to Trimet’s expectations. I read in a maintainence report some time ago that the fleet average was something like 4.60 MPG and that the 2 DE busses came in at 5.35 MPG(I think)…but that-at the time at least-the cost was too high on the DE’s to make them worth while…the report recommended using a “NASCAR inspired” cooling system to be retro-fitted to the 2600 series busses and newer. This system reportedly increased fuel efficentcy to 4.90 MPG for about 10% of the cost difference of diesel/DE busses…

  9. “Imagine the job creation if we built transit buses of all kinds in the City of Portland. I think someone once said here that there’s a company that could if they wanted to (or could build more if they received the demand), all they’d need is the orders.”

    >>>> NEVER will happen – not with the ‘railfan’ culture that dominates transit policy around these parts.

    It’s RAIL here all the way, baby!

  10. Nick, you’ve been asked to document this “railfan culture” assertion time and time again. Just because you repeatedly state it (on a regular basis) doesn’t make it true.

    Numerous contributors and commenters on this blog, including Chris, myself, and others have stated that bus service, which still carries the majority of transit riders in our region, ought to be protected and expanded.

    Even the SE district Streetcar System Plan working group, of which I was a participant, formally recommended electric trolleybuses and BRT-style buses be studied as an less-costly alternative to streetcars in particular, lower-density corridors. I voted in favor of those recommendations.

    In reference to earlier comments about alternative-fuel buses, I’ve been on the record here multiple times as stating that BRT-style buses, such as those used in Eugene’s EmX system, could be used to increase capacity on the transit mall with left-side operation.

    None of this changes the fact that cities with no rail at all (and thus no “railfan culture”), such as Eugene and Salem, are facing as much of a financial crunch (if not more) at this time as TriMet.

    Why the need to categorize and demonize (unnamed) people, rather than merely suggest what practical steps you think ought to be taken, and supporting facts associated with those steps?

  11. There are many bus manufacturers in the US and Canada serving the NAFTA market. There is only one Streetcar maker so far, Oregon Iron Works.
    I ride a bus every day, helped start three bus lines (probably more than everyone else on this blog put together), but the simple fact is Streetcar fills a special niche that accommodates short trips in denser urban communities, attracting new riders who would never ride a bus as well as private investment. I have never heard of a new bus line attracting one dollar of such investment. Eugene/Springfield built a BRT line, and its largest employer/hospital moved to the suburbs! Would rail have produced a different result?

  12. “If you can’ behave when asked”

    So I am supposed to just shut up when others use personally directed smears like “delusional” or”fantasy world.” There should be fair application of the rules.

    [Moderator’s Reply: Ron, the rules from time-to-time have been applied to commenters with all viewpoints and commenting styles. The “fantasy world” remark was not any worse than stuff you’ve directed at people and which has been allowed to stand. There will be no further discussion of this with you. Either behave as directed in the forum or go someplace else. – Bob R.]

  13. There is only one Streetcar maker so far

    Well, with minor caveats: Only one maker of a modern low-floor design such as that used in Portland. There are other makers of historic/replica streetcars based in the US. But that doesn’t diminish your larger point.

    helped start three bus lines (probably more than everyone else on this blog put together)

    Including Jim Howell? :-)

  14. [i]Nice to be popular. Let’s hope that translates into lots of job at Oregon Iron Works and sub-contractors.[/i]

    Will the millions of recently unemployed be able to get jobs at Oregon Iron Works? Let’s hope so. These are the last things I would want to see cut from any federal budget excesses. Also I wonder how long funding for such projects will continue? Since there is liable to be another major change in Congress this fall.

  15. Bob,

    You know that despite
    “Numerous contributors and commenters on this blog, including Chris, myself, and others have stated that bus service, which still carries the majority of transit riders in our region, ought to be protected and expanded”

    that is impossible with the rail movement devouring the funding needed to expand bus service.

    And that’s no accident.

    How have you ever documented your advocacy for spending to be shifted to expanding bus service?
    Time and time again you mention what an advocate for bus service you are.
    Just because you repeatedly state it (on a regular basis) doesn’t make it true.

    BTW, I think TriMet over the years has had a total of 7 Nat gas buses out of over 600.

    But we have WES!

  16. Sorry, John, I don’t have to prove myself to you every time you come in here can call me a liar. My record stands, not just in the comments of this blog, but in testimony given at numerous public meetings serving as a citizen volunteer in various capacities, as well as documented in newspaper articles. If you think I’m being dishonest, that’s your problem, not mine. Come back when you have something useful and factual to say.

  17. “Numerous contributors and commenters on this blog, including Chris, myself, and others have stated that bus service, which still carries the majority of transit riders in our region, ought to be protected and expanded”

    IMO, this is the problem with the current funding structure for capital projects and service expansions. Again IMO, this is what causes most of the “bus vs. rail” friction in the Portland Metro Area: many people equate supporting expansion of light rail including streetcars as de facto opposition of bus service. Because TriMet is unwilling to ask the voters of the district for other sources of funding, it seems every time a new rail line opens they must eliminate bus service to compensate for it since the bonds use the same payroll tax necessary for revenue service funding. And, they don’t just cut low-ridership routes. Three examples:

    – 2007 – 95(X)-Tigard/I-5 Express canceled. TriMet tells riders it’s due to construction of light rail tracks on SW 5th and 6th Aves., and riders should ride the 94 (which always takes Barbur Blvd. with additional stops) and be happy. Of course, the route doesn’t return when 5th and 6th reopen.

    – 2009 – 74(X)-Lloyd District/SE Express canceled. To this day, TriMet won’t answer my question of if the route was going to be canceled anyway when the Green Line MAX opened, still citing the IMO non-answer of “low ridership and/or availability of other routes nearby.”

    – 2010 – 65(X)-Marquam Hill/Barbur scheduled for cancellation, with riders being told to use the 61 or 64 and be happy. Again, a very much used route serving those who work for an employer that essentially requires them to not drive to work. Since it’s also at the top of a hill, bicycling isn’t an option for most.

    Additionally, when TriMet cancels the 65 and the 43-John’s Landing-only runs, there goes the remaining service hours and routes representing the former 40-Tacoma and 65(X)-Marquam Hill/Milwaukie routes that used to use the Sellwood Bridge before it closed to buses (with the cancellation of 41-Tacoma and reduction of service on the 70-12th Ave. being the other service instituted to compensate). This tells me that even if a new Sellwood Bridge was being constructed and opened tomorrow, TriMet would operate absolutely no service across it.

    What I find ironic: None of these three routes have all origins and destinations currently directly served by rail!

    Again, if Clark Co. voters apporoved additional funding for transit service in 2005, it could be done in Portland, Oregon in 2010!
    http://www.co.clark.wa.us/elections/results/2005/2005PrimaryElectionResults.html
    (Copy/paste into browser address bar, add “http://” to beginning if necessary, scroll down to “Local Measures.”)

  18. Bob,

    Well that certainly was a diverting over reaction.

    So when was it you advocated funding away from rail and to buses?

    Face it Bob. TriMet is a mess.

    The past rail and transit mall has been a multi billion boondoggle and the next layers will be even worse.

    The Miwaulkie line ($190 million/mile) is an abhorant project that will make WES look like a wise investment.
    Barbur light rail lunacy.

    All of which will further destabilize TriMet and cut bus transit service.

    And you’re a prime, or proud, example of why this is happening.

    Got any Bob updates on the Light rail transit mall success?
    How about North Interstate?
    Cascade Station TOD?

    You may take personal offense at criticism but we, including you, are waging a fierce battle over these policies.

    Thicken your skin.

    You’re hardly any more pleasant than any of your opponents.

  19. As a stark example of our battle is the Sellwood Bridge versus the Milwaukie Light rail.

    I find it outrageous that the New Light rail bridge would leap frog ahead of replacing the Sellwood bridge.
    Taking 250 million from the lottery to do so is equally insane.
    Taking 20 million from SoWa Urban Renewal crazy too.
    Planning more madness with massive urban renewal spending in on Milawaukie light rail/TODs nuts too.

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