Transit Envy


Local mayors are griping that they are too far down the list of projects in the regional High Capacity Transit plan.

Cool … these folks used to fight about highway dollars!


16 responses to “Transit Envy”

  1. That Forest Grove Mayor seems to be almost a bit of a troll. In a few news stories now, I’ve heard him whining about how Forest Grove can become bigger and denser if only we let it.

    But why would we do that? It’s extremely far out. We already have bigger, denser suburbs that are much closer. We don’t need to be encouraging development out in the boonies.

  2. For Forest Grove to become denser, more people would want to move there–simply changing the zoning isn’t enough.

  3. Having served on MPAC with him, I can tell you that Richard Kidd is no troll.

    He’s a thoughtful leader, who care deeply about his community.

    The question here is how we balance the needs/wants of individual communities against the ‘good’ of the whole region. It’s a hard problem.

  4. Politicians fight for pork. In other news, water is wet.

    Turns out the flavor of the port doesn’t matter – highway pork, rail pork, sustainability pork – it’s still pork, and they’ll still fight to get it, because they like being able to point out things that their administration built.

  5. I’ve seen Kidd in action and I’d agree, he’s no troll. He’s simply fighting for his community’s interest, which gives him some good marks in my book. Would that all of us had that from our electeds.

    The real issue, however, is that (from a historic perspective) lines serving exurban / suburban fringe locations were the least healthy. Assuming that the average MAX speed stays the same as now, a commuter from Forest Grove to downtown Portland would have to endure about an hour and a half of time on MAX, which is likely too long to be attractive. This would make Beaverton the effective edge of an attractive commute and Hillsboro the primary traffic driver. Is that enough?

    Purely from a numbers base, running a WES extension out TV Highway to Forest Grove via Hillsboro might work better, as it would reduce the transit time between Forest Grove and Beaverton to about half an hour, putting downtown Portland within a one hour striking distance, but requiring a transfer.

    The fact that Kidd wants to provide Forest Grove residents with quality High Capacity Transit, however, and is willing to fight for that? That can only be a good thing in my book.

  6. This would make Beaverton the effective edge of an attractive commute and Hillsboro the primary traffic driver. Is that enough?

    I’d think so. Forest Grove doesn’t have enough industrial land to employ it’s own population, nor a large enough commercial center which makes sense with them being a fringe town. I doubt most people who live there commute to Portland by car either, so most of the trips that need to be served are likely only going to Hillsboro or Beaverton anyway.

    That and TriMet already has access to the ROW, and the cost estimate is fairly low for a MAX extension, so maybe it should be escalated above (at least) adding two more MAX lines parallel to the existing Westside line.

  7. “Purely from a numbers base, running a WES extension out TV Highway to Forest Grove via Hillsboro might work better, as it would reduce the transit time between Forest Grove and Beaverton to about half an hour, putting downtown Portland within a one hour striking distance, but requiring a transfer.”

    That’s actually a great idea. With maybe four or five stops on the line — Forest Grove, Hillsboro and a few other places — this would open up more TOD nodes, more opportunities for pearls on the string, if you will — at a fairly low cost.

    It could even be an electrified service. Portland needs to start building true electric commuter rail lines, and this corridor does make good sense. (So do others, including one with stops in Troutdale & Hood River… and another to Columbia County, including St Helens, etc.)

  8. crazy idea but what about a long term plan for express tracks on the blue line between beaverton and hillsboro? i would think with these and an improved sunset TC trackage that gets rid of that slow horseshoe loop, you could really reduce the travel time from hillsboro and forest grove to downtown portland. other than the sunset tc area, the route between goose hollow and beaverton is quite fast.

  9. Tracks which split off just before Lloyd Center could travel in various ways to improve cross-town speeds, should that be desired.

    One such route could go under Multnomah St., paralleling the existing line, but skipping Lloyd Center, 7th Ave., and Convention Center, with an underground stop at Rose Quarter TC, then go into a tunnel under the Willamette with one or two centrally-located stops downtown.

    It could be expensive and disruptive to construct, _but_, we already have experience doing this. The Big Pipe project is really a “subway for sewage” of the approximate dimensions of a single-track subway tunnel. (There’s even a trackway in there, to facilitate construction.)

    Others have proposed more modest solutions, where you do platform lengthening outside the core area to support 4-car trains, consolidate stations in the inner area (Rose Quarter / Convention Center could easily be consolidated, for example, and Salmon St. / PGE Park), and then go underground only between about 1st and 13th downtown. You could eliminate at least 5 or 6 stops this way, for far less money than a complete Lloyd Center to Goose Hollow subway.

    So technically, it’s achievable. The remaining questions are A) where, B) how much, and C) what are the benefits?

  10. (You could still call the new parallel line the “Blue Line” since the stations would be very, very close to the surface version, and just label it an “Express”. In the full subway scenario, the Steel Bridge and downtown street grid limitations would be removed, and there’d be plenty of headway to insert express trains into the existing outer sections.)

  11. Glad to see the Barbur corridor in Tier 1. I’m curious what the best route would be for serving the Tigard Triangle… maybe have it parallel SW 72nd? I’d kind of like to see it stop at Kruse Woods as well, but that might put the route too far east, especially if it’s intended to serve Tigard TC.

    As for another one of the Tier 1 projects, I was surprised to see them proposing a MAX line for the Powell corridor… BRT would seem to make more sense in this instance.

    Transit linking Clackamas and Washington Counties is long overdue — too bad it’s been relegated to Tier 2.

  12. Is service to the Tigard Triangle a priority? Not a lot of housing in the Triangle; it’s mainly low-density commercial and a whole pile of big box retail. If anything, I’d route the line north/west of 99W and have it hit Washington Square, rather than bother with the Triangle. The only way the Triangle ought to have a MAX line running through it is if the line tunnels under Mt. Sylvania to have a direct PCC stop, which is probably a dubious proposition. I’d rather build another aerial tram–even if it costs $50 million that’s a hell of a lot cheaper than routing the MAX closer.

    Either that, or a pedestrian tunnel (about 1500 feet in length) connecting a PCC station along Burbur (at 53rd or so) to elevators on the campus

    Once he’s recalled, we could put Sam in charge of the project. He likes trams.

  13. Gee Scotty, that would be even longer than the 1400′ pedestrian/cyclist tunnel being considered for Elk Rock to parallel the LO streetcar extension. Maybe we should build a TBM factory right here in Portland!

  14. Is service to the Tigard Triangle a priority? Not a lot of housing in the Triangle; it’s mainly low-density commercial and a whole pile of big box retail.

    Tigard’s mayor has said in several articles regarding bringing MAX out there that it’s an area they’d like to redevelop in a mixed use way. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to connect Washington Square to the MAX network, but it seems like a line along the WES corridor would be better for that than rerouting a line to Tigard 2-3 miles out of direction.

    The diversion from 99W that would make more sense to me would be to take the line down SW 124th to serve the growing industrial areas, then cut west to Sherwood. There’s really nothing along 99W between Sherwood and SW 124th anyway, and it would be a good way to provide direct access to suburban jobs in that area from the MAX as well.

  15. Is service to the Tigard Triangle a priority? Not a lot of housing in the Triangle; it’s mainly low-density commercial and a whole pile of big box retail.

    According to the linked article, Tigard Mayor Craig Dirksen has hopes for the project spurring high-density residental development in the Triangle (among other places, there’s quite a bit of vacant land just east of Costco). Hopefully it wouldn’t turn out to be another version of the Beaverton Round.

    PCC Sylvania would best be served by a shuttle originating at Barbur TC.

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