TriMet Security Update: Rowdy juveniles may face booking and detention


KGW Article:
Juveniles acting out on TriMet headed for booking

Starting March 1, juveniles who commit misdemeanors on buses and Max trains will be booked and detained for up to 36 hours at the Multnomah County juvenile court facility, authorities said Thursday.

TriMet is adding more officers to patrol the system. Five will be added on the west side and officials are still in discussions regarding how many will be added to the east side.

Full Article


29 responses to “TriMet Security Update: Rowdy juveniles may face booking and detention”

  1. Excellent… now us rowdy adults can commit misdemeanors in peace.

    Actually, I think this is stupid. It’s not going to prevent a single incident, and will more than likely be applied to minority youth who are simply being loud (and inconsiderate) but not necessarily illegal.

    Of course, all civility laws are unfairly applied to minorities, so it shouldn’t be surprised.

  2. I agree with you MRB.

    While TriMet is at it let’s add all the obnoxious behavior of those talking loudly on their cell phones.

  3. While TriMet is at it let’s add all the obnoxious behavior of those talking loudly on their cell phones.

    What? You mean you don’t enjoy listening (along with the entire busload of people) to someone sharing their deepest emotions and most screwed-up personal trauma? “I gave him five years of my life and he slept with my sister!”

  4. What? You mean you don’t enjoy listening (along with the entire busload of people) to someone sharing their deepest emotions and most screwed-up personal trauma?

    This is actually a function of our increasingly individualistic society. We don’t need police, bus monitors or whatever to stop people from behaving obnoxiously on the bus. What it takes is for others to exert some sort of social control. Is someone talking too loudly? All you really need to do is (politely!) ask someone to lower the volume.

    For the most part, people aren’t trying to annoy everyone with their talk, they just aren’t considerate. And why should they be, if no one complains?

    Yes, it takes guts to talk to a complete stranger.

    But it shouldn’t take police.

  5. I anticipate that serving your 36 hours will soon become a Portland Metro Area rite of passage.

    Excellent… now us rowdy adults can commit misdemeanors in peace.

    I read about this in the paper earlier this morning. Can anyone else say “age discrimination” here? It’s like we’re setting up kids to be criminals instead of telling them how to do things correctly in the first place. This is something I don’t like about the way the system/society works these days – nobody tells you you’ve broken a law until after you’ve done so – even if you’ve talked to someone who knows exactly whatever that law is!

    (BTW, my first experience with TriMet outside of MAX was when I was in elementary school, where a driver came into our class to talk about his job, the correct way to ride the bus, and gave us a short excursion on what was one of the then-new 500s.)

  6. How did this devolve so quickly into a discussion of cell phones in public?

    Trying to steer this back to the topic-at-hand, the following questions come to mind, both for immediate issues and longer-term issues that can be measured after the program has been implemented for awhile:

    1. What constitutes misdemeanors which would be handled in this new way?
    2. What was the old way? A write-up, an exclusion?
    3. Was the old way less likely to result in court intervention, or did write-ups (if that’s what was being done) eventually result in a hearing, even if there was no processing/detention?
    4. The article indicates this is a change of policy regarding minors. What is the policy regarding adults?
    5. Are statistics kept with regard to demographics, such as the race of the person being charged? Will this processing/detention policy result in better record-keeping in this regard?
    6. In keeping with #5, is the policy being implemented fairly and are the people being processed a representative sample of the population actually committing offenses?
    7. The most important: Is the policy resulting in A) a reduction in recidivism and/or B) a reduction in incidents due to deterrent value?

    By the way, the most effective way I’ve found to deal with people sharing too much personal information via loud cell-phone talk is to wait for them to say something remotely funny and just laugh at it. They can’t get mad that you’ve found their humor funny, but immediately realize you’ve been hearing their words, and they usually clam up a bit. If you’re especially brave, just join in “You know, that happened to my cousin once…”, but be prepared to duck. :-)

  7. Did you see this headline:

    The Portland Tri-Met police unit, which will start patrolling buses and MAX trains May 15, will be flexible and innovative, officials at the Portland Police Bureau promised Friday.

    The Oregonian, April 30, 1989

    I wonder how long this one will last? Probably till the Milwaulkie gets the green light.

    See: ortem.org/history/

  8. The Ortem site is funny, it’s not only anti-LRT (that is to be expected from semi-anonymous web sites with headlines like “Crime Rail”), but it’s also against BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) as well — “added congestion and jobs lost” and “You must speak up loud to put an end to the destruction of our community”.

    You just can’t win with some people.

  9. So what did you think of Trimet failing to address their crime problem year after year for almost 20 years?

    Do we have any reason to think they are really trying this time?

    Thanks
    JK

  10. So what did you think of Trimet failing to address their crime problem year after year for almost 20 years?

    I would characterize it as inadequate enforcement, not failure. I’d also characterize it as inadequate involvement of law enforcement agencies from some of the surrounding communities.

    If you’ve been reading what I’ve posted here over the years, you would see that I was posting that transit needed greater staff presence and security enforcement long before the current media explosion.

    Do we have any reason to think they are really trying this time?

    Yes, at least at the present time.

  11. “I anticipate that serving your 36 hours will soon become a Portland Metro Area rite of passage.”

    You may be right on that one!

    ————

    “Actually, I think this is stupid. It’s not going to prevent a single incident, and will more than likely be applied to minority youth who are simply being loud”

    What a ridiculous statement. So ridiculous I won’t even bother responding further.

    ————-

    “All you really need to do is (politely!) ask someone to lower the volume.”

    Yet more absurd ideas from you!

    ———————

    “So what did you think of Trimet failing to address their crime problem year after year for almost 20 years?”

    Jeez Jim, you are so ANTI TRIMET that nothing you say has any particular credibility, sorry pal.

    —————–

    AND THEY ARE TRYING!

    For jimminy sakes!

    QUIT BLAMING THE TRANSIT SYSTEM FOR SOCIETIES PROBLEMS!

    Some people are just never satisfied!

    The way some of you think it would appear if they just got rid of TRIMET then crime would vanish.

  12. I said:
    Actually, I think this is stupid. It’s not going to prevent a single incident
    Al M said:
    What a ridiculous statement. So ridiculous I won’t even bother responding further.

    Really? As best I know, misdemeanors are already illegal, yet people persist in committing them. Maybe there were no consequences before, but it is not as if any of the ‘juveniles’ in question are reading Tri-Met alerts from their website. Amazingly, you agree that the “36 hours” will be a badge of honor amongst teens yet will also seem to think that this policy will reduce the number of ‘incidents’. Which is it?

    I said:
    All you really need to do is (politely!) ask someone to lower the volume.
    Al M said:
    Yet more absurd ideas from you!

    I fail to see what is absurd. You are either implying that its not practical to ask people to change their behavior if it offends; or that anyone who is being disruptive wont care to honor your request.

    In the first case, people who are too afraid/uncomfortable/whatever to raise their voice dont have much cause to complain about what is in actuality a minor inconvenience.

    In the second case, the reinforces my view that any amount of punishment will not fail to deter any incidents.

  13. “I fail to see what is absurd.”

    Listen pal, I am “out here” day after day after day.

    I’ve seen more examples of good Samaritans getting their heads bashed in than you can shake a stick at.

  14. the solution to loud cell phone talkers is called a cell phone jammer

    i’m sorry but someone shouting into their phone about their period or the different sexual positions they performed the previous night is not about to talk quietly when asked by a stranger.

  15. Just so that no undue regulatory attention is drawn toward the management of this blog, let me point out that cell phone jammers, used in public, are a violation of FCC rules and very likely other federal laws with nasty consequences.

    I’ve actually given a great deal of thought to the issue of cell phones in public places (especially movie theatres), and have what I believe to be a first-class, legal, patentable solution, which I will only share with a patent attorney for the time being. (Sorry to be a tease.) Any patent attorneys out there interested in a fabulous pro-bono opportunity?

  16. Ladies and Gentlemen, my comment about adding loud cell phone talkers to the “crimes” was one of sarcasm, one to show how ridiculous TriMet is being. I have no problem giving someone a look when they are being too loud. Should go for the same when someone’s behavior is “obnoxious and rowdy”. The use of police is over the top.

    And yes, I do think that minority, in particular African American, youth will be given more tickets.

  17. “The use of police is over the top.

    And yes, I do think that minority, in particular African American, youth will be given more tickets. ”

    -so your of the

    **everything is wonderful lets do nothing***

    Disneyland crowd?-

  18. Bob R. Says: let me point out that cell phone jammers, used in public, are a violation of FCC rules and very likely other federal laws with nasty consequences.
    JK: Thanks Bob, they are probably illegal in private too. Radio waves do not stay on one’s property.

    Let me add this:
    Cell phone jammers can get people killed by preventing access to 911. That may be a negligent homicide charge and big time civil liability for the jammer.

    Don’t even think of it.

    Thanks
    JK

  19. While TriMet is at it let’s add all the obnoxious behavior of those talking loudly on their cell phones

    I don’t think it’s that big of a deal unless they are talking loudly and using profanities. If someone’s behavior bothers you, just tell them to shut up. If they give you lip or threaten to harm you just push the button and tell the driver there is an unruly passenger that needs to be removed. I’ve done it before.

  20. Al and I did the video acquisition portion of our project tonight, riding 9 different trains between 10PM and 12:30AM — and we lived to tell the tale. :-)

    Hopefully something will be edited together for your viewing edification next week.

    Overall, no actual _incidents_ to report, although there were a few _characters_ out there. But most people were just typical folk riding quietly. (We did witness what could have been a drug deal/exchange at one station, but there was another non-nefarious scenario which fit the encounter as well.)

    The big surprises:

    1. The majority of ticket machines had some non-functioning aspect or were completely offline.
    2. The one train car we witnessed being fare inspected by police officers had 100% fare compliance. 100%. No sudden departing passengers, either. (Caveat: One of the officers was a personal friend of mine, but was assigned to duty which included MAX this evening — unrelated to our project.)
    3. The new solar-powered lights at 82nd ave. are a complete joke.
    4. Men with shiny platinum-plated teeth love to show off for the camera and resent having to pay a fare to merely be on the platform to ensure their child has a safe transit departure.
    5. Rider advocates travel in swarms.
    6. TriMet’s staff break room vending machines make a decent hot cocoa. Genuinely not bad.
    7. If your life partner sleeps with earplugs, don’t forget your keys when returning from a late-night transit video project.

    My law enforcement friend recommends we try this project again during Spring Break, when we’re likely to see just how unruly people can get on late-night transit. Tonight’s video is more indicative of a normal relatively calm weeknight.

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