From Metro:
Portland-Milwaukie Light Rail Project Planning for light rail stations
Light rail stations have the ability to transform their surroundings, as a catalyst for development and by offering more accessibility to existing neighborhoods. Communities that have stations become regional destinations for commerce and gathering places for local residents. How a station transforms a community is up to those who work, live, or play in the area. The goal of station area planning during the Supplemental Draft Environmental Impact Statement process is to create a venue for communities to maximize the opportunities that light rail stations present.
The process will culminate in the identification of action steps that cities can consider to achieve the station areas envisioned by their community members.
Two community workshops are scheduled for early October that will focus on the proposed Southeast Portland stations. The workshops are forums for Southeast Portland residents to share opportunities they see in areas near proposed light rail stations. The workshops will help to identify important considerations such as station access for riders, street improvements, transit connections, and redevelopment opportunities.
Interested individuals can go to www.metro-region.org/southcorridor to download maps of specific station areas and comment forms. The maps and forms will be available online the week of September 24th.
Completed comment forms, suggestions and ideas will be accepted throughout the project. Interested persons are encouraged to bring illustrations including photographs, or written suggestions, to the community workshops. For more information, call (503) 797-1756 or e-mail trans@metro-region.org.
6 – 8:30 p.m.
Tuesday, Oct 2
Cleveland High School cafeteria
3400 SE 26th Ave., Portland(This workshop will focus on station areas around SE Clinton St./SE 12th Ave., SE Rhine St. and SE Holgate off SE 17th)
6 – 8:30 p.m.
Thursday, Oct 11
Sellwood Middle School cafeteria
8300 SE 15th Ave., Portland(This workshop will focus on station areas around SE Harold St., SE Bybee St., SE Tacoma St. off SE McLoughlin Blvd.)
83 responses to “REMINDER: Provide Input on Milwaukie LRT Stations”
If you don’t want the area around the light rail stations to be “transformed” into another Rockwood.. I suggest someone demands secured, grade separated stations, and a memorandum on high density low income apartment complexes.
and a memorandum on high density low income apartment complexes.
What will a memo accomplish? Does the memo get issued to all light rail riders, or just to the station management? :-)
(Yes, I know you meant to say “moratorium”, I just couldn’t resist.)
– Bob R.
I sure hope they learned their lesson from the wasteful spending on Westside “transit art” along the MAX route. How many millions were spent on this artwork that is now vandalized and “graffitied” up? I think they can make a station look nice, be functional, etc. without wasting money on pure asthetics that invite vandalism.
I actually loved all of the art on the Westside line, and on the Interstate line. I think it’s great. And it was less than 1% of the overall cost of the project, so there’s not really much you can say about that. Fluctuations in the price of concrete from this month to the next have more effect on the project budget.
You’re blaming the artwork for vandalism? So if there was no artwork, the vandalism would end? Wow, who knew it was that simple!
Down with art.
No, I didn’t “blame” artwork for vandalism. I just said I thought it attracted vandalism. But then again, the whole transit system attracts an undesirable element to begin with….. Doesn’t it seem that a plain glass window in a max stop would be less expensive to fix after being vandalized than etched glass?
“Doesn’t it seem that a plain glass window in a max stop would be less expensive to fix after being vandalized than etched glass?”
No.
http://www.trimet.org/publicart/busshelters.htm
“But then again, the whole transit system attracts an undesirable element to begin with.”
I resent your implication that I am an “undesirable element”, as I am a frequent transit user.
I thought name-calling and similar types of useless comments were prohibited on this board. It’s becoming a waste of time to read with crap like this being posted.
I attended the Oct. 2nd meeting, which focused on the stations in and around Hosford-Abernethy and Brooklyn neighborhoods (one of my old neighborhoods, and the home of TriMet and PGE).
Interesting that several people wondered why Brooklyn would get 2 stops fairly close together (Rhine St. and Holgate Blvd.), and said it’s still very early in the process and where the stations actually go might change a bit, but when I suggested a central stop at Center St., I was asked to please limit my comments to the stations given, as those were the ones they were asking questions about.
As for housing redevelopment, etc., Brooklyn is a very beautiful, established neighborhood with excellent existing bus service (I once lived down the street from Parkrose TC – crime and other neighborhood problems aside, the bus service in Brooklyn was, in my opinion, better than living close to a transit center). People say that those huge houses on tiny lots out in the middle of transit nowhere Washington Co. are selling like hotcakes… well, multiply that by at least 25 and that’s an idea of how nice Brooklyn is. Turning it into another Rockwood would be a disgrace, and as I said, everyone doesn’t have that far to go if they need to complain about it becoming one.
Oh, there were people there that liked the public art. Personally, I think the sandblasted shelter panels are nice, but the huge (tagged) sculptures are a nice idea that just don’t work. If I want to get from point A to point B, I’ll go to a transit stop. If I want art, I’ll go to an art museum.
My ideas concerning housing opportunities related to the proposed MAX line:
1. Does the light rail line make jobs easier to get to for transit users, thereby making transit users more employable in higher-paying (and higher payroll tax-producing) jobs? If it doesn’t, it should. Letting an employer that has more than one location be able force someone who lives along a transit route to drive to work alone, during hours served by transit, to a location that’s not served by transit, where the employee could just as well get to another location by using transit is simply stupid. Also, creating an artificial barrier of a maximum household income seems like a good idea, but then someone gets promoted or junior in high school gets a job at Burger Palace and wham, they’re over the income limit and either have to find lower-paying work or move out.
2. The people who should be moving into said housing units should be people who want to make a commitment to using transit – people that won’t own vehicles because they want to use transit, or because they like using transit and are willing to ditch their car – as well as those that should be using transit, and those that need to use transit, and those that have to use transit. That way, there’s always people at the stops, either going to/from work or going grocery shopping (I’ve done this on the bus before – it’s nowhere as difficult as it sounds) or whatever. That way, if someone shows up at a stop that wants to cause problems, they’d be outnumbered.
3. If someone doesn’t work, or has a criminal history, they don’t get to live there. Period. Regular employment and criminal checks on all tenants would be a condition of the privilege of living there.
Now, before someone blasts away at me for being a fraudulent socialist, bear in mind these are ideas for housing units created for/by the light rail line – I am not in any way, shape, or form thinking this should be imposed on an entire neighborhood. However, at the same time I see no point in “transit-oriented development” if people living there are still owning two or three cars and using transit once a year, and/or unemployed, fare evading six-pack guzzlers with eight kids (let’s face it, this is the perception of current “affordable housing” projects).
…the whole transit system attracts an undesirable element to begin with…
If it does, then we need to reclaim it.
nuovorecord ,
I never suggested that anyone here fit that. People of all walks of life ride the transit systems but why is it there are enhanced police everywhere near transit centers? They had to put a police station in old town – guess where, right by the max! Wasn’t there a large melee recently out east by Gresham? I’ve seen fights and drug deals on the MAX before – one took place right as it was going across the Steel Bridge. Did I say anything? Heck No. I could have but why invite even more trouble on myself? How would I know they didn’t have a knife or something?
If it does, then we need to reclaim it.
I agree, the taxpayers are footing the bill for this system they should be able to (comfortably) use it and feel safe. If “undesirables” are allowed to get away with their shenanigans on the transit system then the whole system loses credibility and discourages people who actually pay for it….
That was my point. I didn’t mean it as a slam to ALL people who do ride transit.
Jason –
I think the experience with the kind of housing you are talking about has been disastrous. Subsidized, affordable, units need to be mixed into market rate or you end up adding to neighborhood instability.
(let’s face it, this is the perception of current “affordable housing” projects).
It certainly is the stereotype some people who watch too much TV have. But I don’t think any public policy should be built around that.
There are numerous research studies out there that show that the crime rates at and near transit stations directly mirrors that of the greater neighborhood areas that those transit stops serve. This research has been replicated here in Portland, and anecdotal evidence seems to back it up as well. When was the last time you heard someone complain about crime at the MAX stop in front of the MAC Club or at the one near Pioneer Place? Wasn’t the area under the Burnside Bridge scary before MAX was built?
Every rail station is going to have some crime issues, but that is true for anyplace where thousands of people gather during the course of the day.
This is not to say that more can’t be done to promote safety on the MAX. I firmly believe that more on-board security guards and fare inspectors would go a long ways towards reducing issues on the trains.
I am glad to see that there is a separate safety committee that is addressing these issues on the proposed Milwaukie line. As a member of the general citizen’s advisory committe, I can assure you that safety is a top concern of our group as well.
Lance Lindahl
Chair, Brooklyn Action Corps
Garlynn – Oh, okay. Since it’s only 1%, then it can’t possibly be money better spent elsewhere then. If it’s a $300 million project, that’s THREE MILLION DOLLARS… so there’s a LOT that can be said about it. And besides, isn’t the new guidance 2% or 2.5%?
Lance,
One of the greatest concerns about rapid transit and crime is the mobility of deviant behavior. Mobility of the general population is a “good thing”. Mobility of deviant behavior is a “bad thing”. The petty criminal from downtown Portland now has access and quick escape from crimes committed in Hillsboro (for example). And, it works both ways. No need for a vehicle.
“Mobility of the general population is a “good thing”. Mobility of deviant behavior is a “bad thing””
HUH?
Lets change that to;
1-MOBILITY IS A GOOD THING
2-DEVIANT BEHAVIOR IS A BAD THING
al,
You can change it however you would like. You are correct, deviant behavior is a “bad thing”. However, it takes on an added negative element when mobility aids the deviant behavior. An inmate in prison is not nearly the problem as an inmate that has access to mobility.
Mobility can be good, or bad, depending on the reason for the mobility.
Mobility can be good, or bad, depending on the reason for the mobility.
No doubt. And most criminals who don’t live in the neighborhood use an auto to flee the scene of the crime. So are you proposing closing all the streets to Hillsboro to prevent deviants from committing crimes there? There is no evidence I know of that transit service adds to crime.
http://archie.ci.gresham.or.us/crimeout/default.htm
http://www.gis.ci.portland.or.us/maps/police/
Look for yourself to see how much crime occurs at a MAX station, or near a MAX station, within Gresham or Portland city limits.
(It isn’t pretty.)
(cross-posted between two threads, as it is relevant to current discussion in both.)
I attended the October 11 meeting. Attendance was pretty sparse. I sat down with a few peope to brainstorm about the prospective Harold Street station. It was pretty fun … we wound up adding a pedestrian/bicycle bridge at Reedway to make it the Harold/Reed College station, and took a couple blocks of land at the southern tip of an industrial area as a potential transit-oriented development next to Reed.
A point…
Check out the “art” at the red line station Parkrose/Sumner station. It amounts to a kitchen chair and table, albeit permanent type sculptures. A little further across the station there is another set of living room lounge chairs, also hard permanent type structures.
The reason I bring up this art is because it is perm/fixed art that is “Functional”. Functional art serves the same purposes as the other art does, but is actually put to good use, often attracting a drastic reduction in prospective “graffiti”.
Also the art serves to dissuade broken windows. i.e. for instance the “broken window theory”. The art, except when graffiti-ed, provides a beauty which invokes higher standards in people. When things get run down, they keep getting run down. It has been seen time and time again, per the “broken window theory”.
Basically what I’m saying is, the artwork is worth it… I think the cost is absurd, but that is what happens when the Government buys art. It is often in bad and disrespectful taste (re: china town dragons), excessively expensive that serves to attract no attention and only graffiti, but in some rare instances provides “grandiosities” to a station. The art should be had, but it should also be found for better prices, and made functional according to the stations.
So I went and looked at the map of Gresham and the crimes. Several things I noticed.
A: Gresham is a crappy place period.
B: Most of the crime happens along Stark, not at the Light Rail stations. There are definitely more dense crime areas that are NOT located at or near MAX stations.
C: The Light Rail doesn’t consistently attract crime except in “high crime” areas. Just like any other location. Where lower income, lower class, crappy people gather, crime is high, regardless of mode of transit in location.
D: Most car thefts don’t happen at MAX stations.
E: There is no category of MAX LRV thefts but there is for auto thefts. hmmmm.
F: Gresham is a crappy place period. (Did I mention that?)
Anyway, the point of those observations. Light rail has not been a catalyst for crime, at least not in a statistically or correlatively factual way.
“Anyway, the point of those observations. Light rail has not been a catalyst for crime, at least not in a statistically or correlatively factual way.”
This whole issue could be handled very simply, by having a team of security personnel who’s only function is to ride the max and keep an eye on things, moving from car to car at the various stations. At each station they can change cars and monitor activities at that particular station.
They need people on the TRAINS AT ALL TIMES, not just sporadically!
AND, having some sort of personnel at the large transfer points, information booths or something like that which stays open as long as the system is running. Places like hillsboro, willow creek, beaverton, rose quarter, gresham, et al.
Why they don’t invest in any of this is beyond me.
The problem is not going to get better by itself.
Adron Said:
“Anyway, the point of those observations. Light rail has not been a catalyst for crime, at least not in a statistically or correlatively factual way.”
Al quoted the above and replied:
“This whole issue could be handled very simply…”
What issue? Adron’s quote said there wasn’t an issue, and elsewhere in his post he said that Sandy was far more dangerous than MAX. If you disagree, then say so and why, but don’t quote someone who says that there isn’t a problem and offer solutions to that non-problem.
Adron Said:
“A: Gresham is a crappy place period.”
Exactly: Gresham doesn’t have very many police officers. On a per capita basis, it has the least in the Metro area.
(cross-posted between two threads, as it is relevant to current discussion in both.)
Since it doesn’t show what is claimed, it is equally irrelevant.
Adron –
Good art is expensive. And some bad art is expensive as well. But I think most cheap art is likely not very good, at least by the today’s standards. There are committees that decide on how the art dollars should be spent who presumably have some ideas about what makes it valuable.
o I went and looked at the map of Gresham and the crimes. Several things I noticed.
A: Gresham is a crappy place period.
Actually, I don’t think that is true if you mean the whole city. But crime statistics (and maps) are often misleading if you are trying to evaluate the danger of stranger-on-stranger crime. A couple drunks settling an argument outside a bar pose no threat to the people on the corner waiting for a bus. At least not unless one of them has a gun.
Ross, right, thanks again for reminding me that:
“ITS A BEAUTIFUL WORLD, WITH BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE, THE WAY THEY SHOW THEY CARE”
http://www.box.net/shared/static/3nrgune3pq.rax
Portland is growing, as the poor feel the pinch of gentrification they end up desperate, which leads to drug use and crime. Poor people generally ride transit vs cars.
TRANSIT NEEDS REGULAR PATROLS, they have rider advocates on Buses in NE Portland but no REGULAR monitoring of the Max or the MAX stations.
Portland continues to manage its affairs like some backwater hick cow town.
Al – you can repeat your message. But it doesn’t make it true.
The fact is that there are plenty of other more pressing transit issues then security and there are more pressing security issues than transit. If you have the money to pay police, having them ride MAX is a poor use of that money. And if you want to encourage transit use, putting a lot more security on MAX is not the place to invest.
Well Ross, how about this:
WE AGREE ON ONE THING; THAT WE DISAGREE!
The “danger” on MAX is more perception than reality. Riders getting nervous around “scary-looking people.”
Is there a way to get more uniforms and badges onto Tri-Met without hiring people? Maybe some kind of reward program to get uniformed people with badges — police, private security guards — to ride Tri-Met to work while in uniform. Maybe give them a free ride AND some kind of “reverse tickets” or coupons that can be collected and turned in for a gift certificate or something after a certain number of rides.
Hiring full-time security seems a poor investment in transit, when the real limiting factor in expanding transit service, especially bus service, appears to be the cost of hiring new drivers. But when the safety problem is largely perceptual (and so far nobody’s posted anything that shows otherwise), maybe that perception can be addressed in part by frequent sightings of uniformed security on buses, MAX and at transit centers. Even if they aren’t “working” their mere presence should deter rowdy behavior and provide a security blanket for those who need it.
read and comment on this article djk, and ross
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/portland_news/11898825037090.xml&coll=7&thispage=1
I know you gentlemen have little respect for police sergeants, as your knowledge of MAX security issues is far superior to any stupid police sergeant,(and TRIMET employees) but here is the quote anyway:
***The East Precinct’s Sgt. Kim Preston attended
The MAX has been a living nightmare for us,” Preston said. “I would not ride it at night — and I’m armed all the time. There are massive fights, guns displayed, stabbings, people being threatened and bullied.”***
It would have been helpful if the Oregonian article showed not only the statistics for the one area, but compared them to statistics for other neighborhoods and citywide, especially on a per-capita basis.
Unfortunately, there was little in the article which could help anyone come to a conclusion, one way or the other, about crime rates.
I disagree with Ross about putting more resources into staff visibility and security on MAX, but I don’t blame him for being tired of security being brought up so frequently as an issue when there seem to be so few hard facts to examine.
– Bob R.
My last paragraph was ambiguous to those who haven’t been following my posts in another thread: I support adding more staff presence on MAX to combat perceptions of low security as well as combat real, but not usually life-threatening, bad behavior. Ross has stated that increased transit and/or security resources should be devoted to more pressing needs based more on real, quantitative threats rather than perceived threats. (I hope I got that right, Ross)
Just for the record, Al: YOU called Sgt. Preston stupid. I didn’t.
And I have tremendous respect for police officers; they do a critical and extremely difficult job, and they aren’t appreciated (or paid) nearly enough for it. But I also know they aren’t always right, and the nature of their jobs gives many of them a very skewed view of the world.
Bob R, your right, here is Ross’s formula for security needs:
function get_rand_id($length)
{
if($length>0)
{
$rand_id=””;
for($i=1; $i
“and the nature of their jobs gives many of them a very skewed view of the world.”
Boy, you guys are really something. You better believe that they have a skewed view of the world!
THEY DEAL WITH CRIME AND CRIMINALS EVERY COTTON PICKING DAY OF THEIR LIVES!
You want to talk realistically about crime and criminals, talk to a cop, not a sociologist!
Damn you guys are frustrating to communicate with!
Al –
There are a couple of errors in your get_rand_id() function… did you even try to compile it?
Your for() construct is missing a closing clause and terminating parenthesis, and your ellipses don’t nest properly as a result.
As a general coding approach, re-seeding the random number generator within each iteration of a loop is a waste of resources, as is generating a new random number for each subset of a string.
The entire thing could be done with one seed, and without a loop, given reasonable limits on $length.
I never though I’d have to give a programming lesson in the comments of a transportation web site, but every day brings new wonders in life.
– Bob R.
We agree on one thing; that we disagree!
I can’t agree more.
On the same vein, maybe we should ban all private automobile travel, since criminals use that quite a bit, too. In fact, let’s make a claim that all people traveling in their own privately-owned vehicles are criminals due to this “fact by association” – yeah, right!
That’s how I feel this conversation is going.
C-TRAN used to have uniformed contract security officers at (at least) Fishers Landing and 7th St Transit Centers until 2005, when the belt-tightening and subsequent gear-up for the Sept. 20, 2005 ballot measure took place. Even after they started asking the bus operators to check around for anything unusual, I don’t think there’s been any severe cases of misbehavior, partially because nobody there – including many of the regular riders – tolerate it. They also have plenty of consistent on-board and off-board signage explaining what type of conduct is expected.
When I visited Seattle by public transit about 13 months ago, I picked up a very excellent “Get Ready to Ride Transit Guide” produced by Sound Transit, which contains all of their schedules and fare information (it’s old and outdated now, but there’s an interesting paragraph that relates to the discussion):
The thing I wonder about something similar here, if it were to exist is – would any off-duty police officer be willing to spend time filling out all the extra paperwork just to deal with infractions of TriMet Code or other transit security issues? Assuming current funding levels, is having a bunch of on-duty police officers riding trains and buses all day the best use of police resources?
Most of us that use transit all the time aren’t the ones causing problems – we know we’ll see that operator or other personnel again sooner or later. (I once saw an operator on 14-Hawthorne get cussed out because he was refusing service to someone who’s fairly large dog wasn’t in a carrier because ‘everyone else said it was OK’ – I’d sure hate to be him the next time he encounters the same operator.)
I might have already mentioned in another post that I attended the September TriMet Board Meeting (I should mention that I’m stating the rest of this account from memory) – at the meeting, Fred Hansen was asked a question dealing mostly with fare evasion and if more resources should be put into fare enforcement – he replied that TriMet conducted a peer review and noticed that other agencies that put more into enforcement don’t have that much lower instances of fare evasion, so putting more resources into fare enforcement probably wouldn’t pay for itself.
My guess is this is probably true for overall transit enforcement issues.
Oh, I’m also keeping up with the posts while I write this one:
And I have tremendous respect for police officers;… they aren’t appreciated (or paid) nearly enough for it.
The other problem is I think, thanks to things like Kendra James, James Chasse, and Multnomah Co. Sheriff Bernie Guisto (who’s also a member of the TriMet board); both the Portland Police Department as well as the Multnomah Co. Sheriff’s Office are probably viewed more negatively than the transit security issue, and I doubt voters would voluntarily give either one enough money to close an additional hot dog stand until their own internal problems and public perception are “fixed” – which IMO is why we saw money for jails siphoned off from the now-gone Multnomah County Income Tax (anyone else remember how it was all supposed to be “for the schools?”), and we’re seeing something similar with the proposed City of Portland “Street Maintenance Fee.”
Allright, I’ve said enough about that.
function get_rand_id($length)…
LOL!
BOB R!
LET ME BUY YOU A DRINK!
LOL!!
(Bob R., master blogger, always has an answer!)
You want to talk realistically about crime and criminals, talk to a cop
No. If you want to hear the most exaggerated version of crime problems, talk to a cop. As a “Crime Prevention Specialist”, I repeatedly witnessed cops tell people how un-safe their neighborhoods were.
THEY DEAL WITH CRIME AND CRIMINALS EVERY COTTON PICKING DAY OF THEIR LIVES!
Exactly. So what makes you think they have a “realistic” view of crime in an area. Whatever crime there is, they spend all day, every day dealing with it. Do you suppose it might start to get exaggerated?
Ross has stated that increased transit and/or security resources should be devoted to more pressing needs based more on real, quantitative threats rather than perceived threats. (I hope I got that right, Ross)
Only in part. For instance, the story linked above with the quote from Sgt. Preston is about the crime problems in “felony flats” which is nowhere near a MAX station. Should police be pulled out of that neighborhood to police imagined problems on MAX?
The other option, would spending transit money on police increase ridership more than the same money spend on improved service?
If you want to talk realistically about criminals, talk to a criminal defense attorney or a corrections officer. Both are in a far better position to get accurate, balanced information about criminals than any police officer.
I have two uncles that were involved in law enforcement – they’re now retired. Day in, day out – they were dealing with criminals and problems that most of us never are aware of. To them, the world is a very threatening place, because that’s what they’re surrounded with every day.
But somehow, I’ve managed to avoid drug deals, shootings, domestic violence, bank robberies, high-speed chases and all of the other day in, day out activities of my uncles’ work. I would venture a guess that most of the rest of you reading this are also blissfully ignorant of most of the crimes taking place in Portland. We have our police force to thank for that.
But, no, I don’t think police officers have a realistic outlook on life.
I think I would put it this way:
Based on the concentration cops encounter every day of criminals, liars, flakes, and seeing the victims of untold varieties of human tragedy, the situation is created where cops encounter significant obstacles to and distractions from reaching a realistic outlook on life. But I know several cops who (IMHO) have achieved a realistic outlook.
On the other hand, people who haven’t ever done a ride-along or walked a beat as part of a community awareness program really ought to do so… you might be surprised what you find out there.
– Bob R.
But I know several cops who (IMHO) have achieved a realistic outlook.
Yes, but you want to put guards on MAX … :)
I don’t think it is impossible for police to have a realistic outlook, but I think it is hard to keep perspective when you only see people under stress, which often means at their worst.
No. If you want to hear the most exaggerated version of crime problems, talk to a cop.
Likewise, if you want to hear the most exaggerated version of transit service, talk to someone that rides transit every day?
That must mean that those who think Portland area transit is peachy fine must not ride it frequently and/or every day.
Erik Wrote: That must mean that those who think Portland area transit is peachy fine must not ride it frequently and/or every day.
False premise. I don’t know of anyone here who espouses the notion that Portland area transit is “peachy fine”.
Ross wrote: Yes, but you want to put guards on MAX … :)
I guess I should restate my original suggestion: We increase staff presence, which can mean “greeters” or similar positions, not necessarily full-on security guards.
– Bob R.
I wouldn’t say Tri-Met is “peachy fine” because it does need work, but it’s a pretty good transit system compared to most others I’ve used. I much prefer it to King County Metro, which is the only other system I’ve had years of daily experience with.
And I ride Tri-Met almost every day for much of the year.
We increase staff presence, which can mean “greeters” or similar positions, not necessarily full-on security guards.
How long do you suppose that will last? There will always be people who think its not enought. I think the “its not safe” crowd will continue to escalate what is needed to overcome their “perception” that it isn’t safe. We need something more than the off-hand remarks of a police officer who “never rides MAX” before spending money on more security.
“I think the “its not safe” crowd will continue to escalate what is needed to overcome their “perception” that it isn’t safe. We need something more than the off-hand remarks of a police officer who “never rides MAX” before spending money on more security.”
This table below shows quite clearly that the “off hand remarks of a police officer” are not exactly off hand.
“““““““““““““
Multnomah County Crime Report
CrimeNumber (Estimate)
Total49,148
Murder22
Rape446
Robbery1,580
Aggravated Assault4,127
Burglary6,694
Larceny – theft29,927
Motor vehicle thefts5,800
“““““““““““`
CRIME IS HAPPENING ALL AROUND US! IF YOUR NOT A VICTIM YET YOU MAY BE ONE SOON,
To be against increased security on the MAX is to against common sense!
AND, we now have proof that djk has no idea what he is talking about:
“if you want to talk realistically about criminals, talk to a criminal defense attorney or a corrections officer. Both are in a far better position to get accurate, balanced information about criminals than any police officer.”
THAT IS THE MOST ABSURD STATEMENT I HAVE HEARD YET IN THIS DISCUSSION!
A lawyer? LAWYER? Knows more than a cop about crime and criminals? hahahah….
A corrections officer? LOL!!!LOL!!!
Neither of these professions involve being out “in the real world”!
DJK, your funny!
BTW, it is estimated that 90% of all crimes never get reported!
BTW, it is estimated that 90% of all crimes never get reported
Estimated by who? There is certainly under-reporting. But the rates vary considerably by the type of crime. Sexual assaults are the only category I know of where anyone has estimates as low as 10% reported.
To be against increased security on the MAX is to against common sense!
“Motor vehicle thefts 5,800”
Don’t take your motor vehicle on MAX, it might get stolen.
[Moderator note: Ross wrote this before I wrote my own “Estimated by who” comment, but it got eaten by the spam filter. – B.R.]
BTW, it is estimated that 90% of all crimes never get reported!
Estimated by whom, and for what kinds of crimes?
And Al, posting countywide crime statistics doesn’t help us determine how much more crime (if any) and what types of crime occur on or near transit.
– Bob R.
Bob R;
Posting county wide crime does not tell us much about “transit” crime per se however the argument is being put forth that there exists a;
“its not safe crowd”;
Transit exists within the general population and operates within the county of Multnomah hence anything that happens within the general population ergo will also happen on public transit.
and:
Millions Of Crimes Go Unreported
Police Weren’t Called For Over Half Of Violent Crimes In Year 2000
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/09/national/main521212.shtml
>ok so maybe 90% is stretching the point a bit
I don’t know why we are having this discussion actually.
All the major cities have police personnel RIDING THEIR SYSTEMS as part of their daily routines.
Somebody mentioned in either this thread or another thread how the access to TRIMET is completely unregulated, while most other urban systems have turnstiles or similar systems to at least attempt to limit the systems to people that actually need to go somewhere.
I used to drive a bus that went up the old transit mall. Every single day, at my stop at 5th and Burnside, dope dealers would get on my bus and do their deal, then get off at pioneer square, and hang their with the assorted throngs of misfits that used to hang out there. I would haul around the all sorts of questionable people. DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY!
DON’T YOU TELL ME THAT THIS SYSTEM, WITH ITS FARELESS SQUARE, DOES NOT ATTRACT CRIMINAL ELEMENT…GO RIDE THROUGH FARELESS SQUARE AFTER 8PM AND THEN COME BACK HERE AND TELL ME IT DOESNT!
I don’t know why we are having this discussion actually.
I’m beginning to wonder about it myself — I seem to be gaining no allies on the issue of increasing staff presence, and am instead stuck between those who think (at best) that it would be a waste of resources and those who think something drastic needs to be done soon.
All the major cities have police personnel RIDING THEIR SYSTEMS as part of their daily routines.
So does TriMet… I just think the visible staff presence needs to be increased, though not necessarily in the form of uniformed security.
Somebody mentioned in either this thread or another thread how the access to TRIMET is completely unregulated, while most other urban systems have turnstiles or similar systems to at least attempt to limit the systems to people that actually need to go somewhere.
I’d like to see a list of “most other” urban rail systems which use turnstiles or other barriers. I agree that many heavy rail systems and subways do (NYC, Chicago, BART, Washington Metro), but light rail systems typically do not.
SF Muni Light Rail: Barrier-free except in the existing subway — older existing lines still have operator-collected fares but new lines are being constructed for prepaid boarding.
San Diego Light Rail: Completely Barrier-free
Los Angeles Light Rail: Barrier-free outside of subways
San Jose Light Rail: Barrier-free
St. Louis Light Rail: Barrier-free
Dallas Light Rail: Barrier-free
Houston Light Rail: Barrier-free
Seattle Light Rail (when it opens): Barrier-free
Baltimore Light Rail: Barrier-free
And so on…
OK OK….
UNCLE ALREADY….
I SURRENDER……
TAKE THE POLICE OFF MAX….
~~ITS A BEAUTIFUL WORLD~~~
C-YA’LL TOMORROW!!
:-C
Yes, Al. I wrote: “if you want to talk realistically about criminals, talk to a criminal defense attorney or a corrections officer.” I said criminals, not crime. There’s a difference between the actor and the action, although you probably missed the distinction.
I don’t dispute, and did not dispute, that cops know a great deal about crime. They deal with it every day. And, yes, they get a lot of exposure to criminals on a short-term basis. But their exposure is — simplified here — to catch the bad guy, slap cuffs on him, read him his rights, interrogate him, and turn him over to the district attorney for disposition. And then move on to deal with the next one. Their exposure is short confrontations with people at their worst. That sort of thing can be expected to lead to cynicism and paranoia, but not much understanding (except in a fairly superficial way, like expecting everyone you meet to be a liar). I would rely on a cop to advise me in preparing for a worst-case-situation and to reduce my chances of being a random victim.
But if you want to know about criminals, go to people who deal with them daily, on an on-going, long-term basis. The people who really get to know criminals inside and out, not just in their worst moments. That’s criminal defense lawyers and corrections officers. Not cops.
And BTW, al, I ride through Fareless Square after 8 p.m. all the time. I expect a lot of the people I see on MAX are the “questionable people” you’re so alarmed about. Rowdy bands of teenagers. Street kids. Punks. But none of these “questionable people” have ever attacked me or threatened me in any way, or attacked or threatened anyone in my presence, and they rarely ever talk to anyone else except to beg spare change. Without any evidence these people are doing anything illegal, I don’t see how they’re automatically a “criminal element.” “Riding while scary” isn’t a crime.
Also, al, you have been quite insulting to people who disagree with you here. In another post, you indicated that you liked the level of discussion on this board. Why not contribute to it by addressing the points people make and refraining from personal attacks?
“I’m beginning to wonder about it myself — I seem to be gaining no allies on the issue of increasing staff presence, and am instead stuck between those who think (at best) that it would be a waste of resources and those who think something drastic needs to be done soon.”
>>>> My thinking has been that there would not be enough ridership on Eastside MAX after 7/8 PM to justify additional personnel, anyway. It’s just not worth the expense. If Eastside MAX is such a problem, just cease operating after a certain a hour, as there are many existing bus services from downtown to Gresham. Better to take the bus, even if the ride is longer.
“I’d like to see a list of “most other” urban rail systems which use turnstiles or other barriers. I agree that many heavy rail systems and subways do (NYC, Chicago, BART, Washington Metro), but light rail systems typically do not.”
>>>> Yeah, I admit I’m a rapid transit fan (heavy rail), but the wide open nature of light rail systems be be a structural problem (as well as generally slow operation). Now I see why LRT has been called a “bastard” form of transit.
“And BTW, al, I ride through Fareless Square after 8 p.m. all the time.”
>>>> So do I–but only between SW 3rd Ave., for instance, and PGE Park, a short ride. I would not want to ride out to Hillsboro or Gresham with that clientele.
Remember, it’s the unpleasant atmosphere that drives people like me away from using MAX at night–why should I have to put up with it?
And I just love the way that the pro-LRT people posting, with the exception of Bob, are just trying to rationalize everything away about this “problem.” Blind devotion to a particular modality, I would say.
Initially when I was following this post, I wasn’t understanding Ross William’s reasoning for there not being a need to use resources to create more visible security. My thoughts were more along Bob’s. i.e. utilizing some resources to make people feel more confident in their perception of safety on rail lines.
Then….the more I read, and the more this thread continued, I realized that Ross is right. No matter what, no matter how many officers are on transit, there is always going to be “undesired” individuals who will ride transit that people will view as “criminal elements.” Having security on the same train as the rider won’t make that rider think any differently of this “criminal element.” It may make them “feel” safer, but they will still think that criminals are riding the trains with them. This is a segment of society that certain people don’t want on transit (or in public areas) AT ALL.
This is not a safety, or even a perception of safey, issue. These are class, stereotyping, and race issues that no amount of extra safety measures will resolve. These are issues where people are uncomfortable being around people who don’t fit their definition of a desireable transit rider.
“Remember, it’s the unpleasant atmosphere that drives people like me away from using MAX at night–why should I have to put up with it?”
What exactly is the clientele that you wouldn’t ride to Gresham or Hillsboro with Nick? What exactly makes it an unpleasant atmosphere for you? What makes you so sure that they are a criminal element that would commit a crime against you once you left downtown?
I’m not trying to be inflammatory, and I’m not making any judgements or accusations towards anyone posting here, but these are simply my own perspectives based on the thoughts that I have seen posted here.
And I just love the way that the pro-LRT people posting, with the exception of Bob, are just trying to rationalize everything away about this “problem.” Blind devotion to a particular modality, I would say.
And you would be wrong. Light rail has real problems. But so far, nobody’s posted anything here — other than one unsupported statement by an East Precinct police officer — to suggest there is an actual “problem” with safety to address. At least, nothing to say public transit is any more or less dangerous a place to be than the general community around it.
If there really is a problem with significant numbers of robberies or assaults on MAX, then by all means we should deal with it. But if it’s just “those people look scary and that makes me uncomfortable,” then the problem is one of perception, not safety.
And in case you missed it, I did suggest finding some way to get more of a security presence about Tri-Met without actually spending a lot of money hiring security staff. If there’s a cost-effective way to put more uniforms on buses and trains, I’m fine with it. Helping timid people feel safer is a good thing.
But given a choice between hiring security staff and more bus drivers, I’d go with more bus drivers. Unless — of course — someone can show me proof of a genuine safety problem beyond “those people look dangerous.”
I’m not discussing this issue any further; this is the second time I have made that comment.
However, let me address this comment:
“Also, al, you have been quite insulting to people who disagree with you here. In another post, you indicated that you liked the level of discussion on this board. Why not contribute to it by addressing the points people make and refraining from personal attacks?”
I assume your referring to my comment; “AND, we now have proof that djk has no idea what he is talking about:”
GETOUTTAHERE!
I want you to know that I am on to the tactics of several people on this forum, who basically form an effective attack force for each other, which is to take a sentence, or sentence fragment, or even just one single word, and twist that sentence or word around to suit your aims of baiting whoever dares to disagree with you and finding some issue on which to base whatever attack you can find, regardless of incorrect your attack may be in an effort to confuse and aggravate your opponents. And through your skillful delivery of the English language those bloggers basically attempt to bully dissenters in this group into submission through shear tenacity.
WELL FORGET IT, I AINT BITING YOUR HOOK!
I’m sorry Al, but I don’t think this is true. For instance you have provided data on crime in Multnomah County, including motor vehicle thefts, as a reason to invest in more guards on MAX. You provided a link to a story about crime in Lents, where there is no MAX, to justify guards on MAX. Pointing out the broken links in logic between the information you are providing and the conclusions you are supporting is not “bullying” you.
I really enjoy getting Al’s opinion, since he is a Trimet operator and has a perspective that none of us can bring to the table. However, I do think he is getting a bit too defensive about this particular issue. This isn’t a “black and white” situation, this is a gray area if ever there was one. It’s not a matter of either “crime infested” or “no crime whatsoever.” The point here is that yes, there is some crime – but to what degree is more heavily influenced by the neighborhood through which the bus or train is passing and not due to the notion that the bus or train is attracting a criminal element.
I’m by no means saying crime is nonexistent on buses or MAX any more so than the neighborhoods through which they pass, but the greater problem here is the perception (i.e., stereotyping) by people that somebody intends to harm them and not that the person will actually do so. Perception weighs more heavily than reality to most people, so this perception issue certainly warrants attention. However, personally, I agree with whomever said so earlier that I’d rather have more bus drivers (and buses) on the road, as I believe that would serve more people than those who are sitting on the fence about taking transit because they don’t feel “comfortable” or “safe” when riding public transit. Does anybody have figures for the number of non-riders that cite that as the primary reason they do not use transit?
Like many of you, I’ve been casually riding MAX since it’s inception and, for a time, commuted daily by MAX between Sunset and Pioneer Square. I’ve taken MAX to and from many a Trailblazer game in both directions from the Rose Quarter, which is usually quite late at night. I can’t say I’ve always been comfortable with everybody around me, but that’s no different on public transit than in many other public places I’ve been. In over twenty years of riding Trimet – even as a child – I’ve never felt intimidated nor threatened.
Maybe I’m lucky, but in all that time the worse case I’ve been party to was once during rush hour on a standing room only train out of downtown, a drunk passenger refused to hang his bike on a hook. Several people on the train politely pointed out the hooks and asked him to hang his bike, but he chose to be belligerent about it (“I don’t have to listen to you people!”). Would a security guard or courtesy officer have been useful in this situation? Perhaps, yes. Is it worth the cost? Based on my own experience, I’m not so sure it would be.
I want you to know that I am on to the tactics of several people on this forum, who basically form an effective attack force for each other, which is to take a sentence, or sentence fragment, or even just one single word, and twist that sentence or word around to suit your aims of baiting whoever dares to disagree with you and finding some issue on which to base whatever attack you can find, regardless of incorrect your attack may be in an effort to confuse and aggravate your opponents. And through your skillful delivery of the English language those bloggers basically attempt to bully dissenters in this group into submission through shear tenacity.
AND, we now have proof that al has no idea what he is talking about.
OK, a bit of moderator intervention here —
Al: Please stick around, as others have mentioned your perspective as an operator adds to the discussion. But directly tossing out “[so and so] has no idea what he is talking about” make it personal, and is against the rules.
DJK: I know you were just returning that verbal barb in-kind, but please drop this line of sparring for awhile and let’s see if Al will re-engage in other discussions with the group tension level dialed down a bit.
And yes, I am sometimes guilty of turning up the volume too high in my own comments as well.
Thanks,
Bob R. (Your occasional PortlandTransport moderator)
“AND, we now have proof that al has no idea what he is talking about.”
LOL!!
Well at least I know for sure that you have a sense of humor djk!
And Ross, the car statistics happen to have been part of the chart!
And crime is crime, if they can steal a car you better rest assured they will steal whatever they can get their hands on!
Bob R,
Don’t worry, I’m not leaving!
}:>
I FOUND ALL THIS IN 10 MINUTES!
Paramedic Saves Stabbing Victim at Portland MAX Station …
Paramedic Saves Stabbing Victim at Portland MAX Station … Schmautz said th
Police arrest two teens in shooting incident near Northeast MAX line
NW Republican: Light Rail, “unsafe,” says Portland Portland Police …
F B I Portland Press Release – April 6, 2006
Portland Police Bureau officers captured this robber a short time later on board a Tri Met MAX train without incident. He is being held in jail tonight and …
Car crash numbers pile up
I have witnessed many incidents of running red lights in full view of a marked police … Portland’s Light Rail Death Rate per 100 million passenger-miles …
Bank Robbery Suspect Captured On MAX – Topix
A bank robbery suspect was captured by Portland police who had s
Was there a riot last night at 160th and E. Burnside? (Jack Bog’s …
From katu.com – another incident that occurred yesterday: … Portland police said the man robbed two people on a westbound MAX train Friday afternoon and …
MaxRedline: Think You’ve Had Enough?
Portland police said the man robbed two people on a westbound MAX train Friday afternoon and then got off at Southeast 122nd Avenue and East Burnside and …
Coalition Against Hate Crimes – Portland Oregon
January 14, 2007 Portland, Ore. (Oregonian)– Four teenage girls have been arrested on accusations of assaulting and robbing a 16-year-old girl at a MAX …
http://www.againsthate.pdx.edu/ – 58k – Cached – Similar pages
Mother proposes bills to improve MAX safety
The Controller can identify the exact location of the incident train, coordinate a response from … SPECIAL SECTIONS. ReTHINKING Portland special section …
http://www.localnewsdaily.com/news/story.php?story_id=1170825513
Eastmoreland Neighbors : Portland News
The incident happened on the corner of Northwest Burnside and 14th Avenue … had surrounded a MAX train at the Holladay Park station. via KEX-AM Portland …
http://www.eastmorelandneighbors.com/index.php?pageId=318489 – 31k – Cached – Simi
American Dream News » Portland East side Max and Crime
It didn’t happen over night but in 20 years sence the Portland east side Max (Light Rail) was built it has changed from a blue collar neighborhood with some …
americandreamcoalition.org/adcblog2/?p=631 – 8k – Cached – Similar page
Man kicked off MAX, arrested at nearby apartments
07/12/2007
HILLSBORO – An intoxicated man who was kicked off a
Article 5 of 57
July 4, 2007
Alliance tackles 82nd MAX stop problems SUMMARY: Safety | The MAX station at Northeast 82nd and Halsey draws many complaints The MAX station at Northeast 82nd Avenue and Halsey Street averages the highest number of police calls and complaints in the Metro area.
It’s also among the most active in the system.
TriMet averages three crimes a day, said Tim Garling, who oversees security and safety. “Statistically, it is quite safe, but the perception isn’t always as good as Full article: 465 words
MAX shuts down briefly when shots are reported HILLSBORO –Hillsboro police briefly shut down the MAX light-rail line running through downtown Wednesday morning after receiving reports of shots being fired at an apartment complex a few blocks away. A man police say fired a shotgun into the air faces charges in the incident.
Train service was interrupted as a precaution, said Lt. Michael Rouches, Hillsboro Police Department spokesman. He said officers weren’t sure of the situation when they arrived and wanted to be sure Full article: 266 words
Article 25 of 57
Robbers hit four banks in one day SUMMARY: Crime | The wave of robberies is one short of a record, and police capture one of four suspects Four men robbed about $2,000 on average from four banks in the Portland area Thursday, one bank short of a record, authorities said Friday.
As of Friday afternoon, officers had arrested one suspect. Ronald Douglas Gowey, 35, was charged Friday with robbing the Wells Fargo branch at 635 S.W. Sixth Ave. Officers arrested Gowey without incident aboard a MAX train on Yamhill Street Full article: 541 words
rticle 26 of 57
To Portlanders, a toddler in peril is everyone’s child SUMMARY: MAX station incident | Passers-by come unhesitantly to an Eastern Oregon couple’s aid when a stranger grabs their daughter Helmuth Rogg’s 2-year-old daughter, Isabel, squirmed beside him on the westbound MAX train last Sunday as an unshaven man with round glasses stepped into the car and sat down in the front.
The man, dressed in shabby bluejeans and a blue windbreaker over a faded olive-green T-shirt, quickly rose and moved to another seat, then Full article: 1729 words
Article 32 of 57
Man beaten with baseball bat SUMMARY: Crime | Man who is attacked in Hillsboro fights back, injuring one of his attackers A Hillsboro man was beaten with a baseball bat Tuesday night shortly after he left a MAX station, police reported.
Cmdr. Chris Skinner, a Hillsboro police spokesman, said the attack was part of a robbery attempt and that the intended victim injured one of the two attackers as he defended himself.
Skinner said the proximity of the light-rail station to the attack appeared to be Full article: 369 words
Article 34 of 57
Bomb blast opens TriMet ticket machine An apparent pipe bomb exploded Saturday night at a Gresham MAX stop, blowing open a TriMet ticket vending machine in what may have been a prank or an attempted theft. No one was hurt in the blast, which blew open the machine’s door about 10:30 p.m., TriMet spokeswoman Carolyn Young said Sunday. Investigators found evidence of a pipe bomb placed beside the machine, she said, but no money or tickets were taken.
Al – only one of those incidents happened on MAX:
“Portland police said the man robbed two people on a westbound MAX train Friday afternoon and then got off at Southeast 122nd Avenue and East Burnside and …”
Once again – the problems you provide as evidence have nothing to do with the proposed solution – more security ON MAX. If you are arguing there should be more police patrols NEAR MAX then you need to say where those police should come from because your own example suggests Lents has serious crime problems. And there is no MAX station anywhere near it.
Well, two anecdotes from me just for conversational value… probably won’t add anything useful to the conversation…
Today I rode MAX from the Lloyd District (7th Ave) out to 60th, and there were two uniformed Transit Security personnel on the train. The time was early in the peak period, though, so the train was very crowded with regular commuters. I find during these peak times that there are the least number of problems on the trains. (Note that I said problems, not crimes.)
Shortly later, we drove to our bank, inside a local Fred Meyer store. The bank was closed, having just been robbed — police were dusting for prints, a helicopter was rapidly following the local street grid (apparently looking for a suspect.)
So, for those keeping score: Our brush with perceived danger today comes from the purely automotive trip to private property, rather than from the transit trip to a public sidewalk.
As I said, not useful data points, just observations — Because of this conversation, I’m trying to be more aware of what situations I see as I travel around by various modes.
– Bob R.
It looks like the system works, for instance your article about:
“Man kicked off MAX, arrested at nearby apartments”
is right here:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/07/man_kicked_off_max_arrested_at.html
‘Rouches said Gutierrez was kicked off the westbound MAX blue line train by TriMet fare inspectors at about 9:10 p.m. He had been acting belligerently toward other passengers, Rouches said. Gutierrez had bloody knuckles and a bloody mouth, but Rouches said he didn’t get them from fighting with anyone on the train. “The fare inspectors were watching him closely the minute he got on,” he said.’
(The article then goes on to describes how he got shot at a nearby apartment complex…)
Matthew –
The system worked in that instance, but if the fare inspectors had not been there, the system may not have worked. (Apparently the threat of the possibility of fare inspectors being on a train was not enough to deter the belligerent man from boarding in the first place.)
I know there are people who will just plain never use transit, and will always perceive it to be unsafe or as carrying the wrong “kind” of people, and we can’t do anything to please them.
But I also believe that perceptions exist on a continuum and that there are people who fear (rightly or wrongly) that they will become the person faced with a belligerent individual, with no fare inspectors in sight.
If those “on the fence” individuals saw TriMet staff at greater frequency, it may adjust perceptions just slightly enough to facilitate more ridership without too great of an expense.
– Bob R.
More fare inspectors, then? Would the fiscal benefits (lower fare evasion and corresponding higher farebox recovery) pay for the cost of adding them?
I don’t know if it would pay for the cost. I don’t think the personnel need to be fare inspectors… I’ve argued for “greeters” for example. Because we’re dealing a lot with perceptions, maybe it should be a PR budget issue rather than an operational budget issue. (At least partially, I doubt that TriMet’s PR side could afford the total number of personnel that would be required.)
Downtown merchants have their greeter programs, the folks in green who walk certain areas of downtown to answer questions and give directions, for example.
I just noticed an article indicating nearly $200,000 of luggage has been reported stolen from PDX airport in the past 3 years. So perhaps, again, there are better places for resources to be devoted than transit.
Can we all agree that a serious study should be conducted assessing rider perceptions, crime in station areas and on-board trains, the complaints of non-riders who claim they would ride “if”, etc.? At least then we’d have some data (and perhaps trend lines) to argue over.
I think there was a study (or at least a calculation) done of how much fare evasion takes place depending on how many fare inspectors you have, but I think that leaves out the dimension of how many legal, regular riders you gain when there is a greater perception of safety due to staff visibility.
– Bob R.
Can we all agree that a serious study should be conducted assessing rider perceptions
Yes, but it needs to evaluate what all the barriers are, both perceived and real, to using transit. And it needs to consider the question if too many resources are already directed to security on MAX when compared to other crime problems, such as those in Lents or domestic violence or on buses or in parking garages or …
Yes, but it needs to evaluate what all the barriers are, both perceived and real, to using transit. And it needs to consider the question if too many resources are already directed to security on MAX when compared to other crime problems, such as those in Lents or domestic violence or on buses or in parking garages or …
Is this going to apply to TriMet as a system (including the bus network) or are we talking only about the Tri-County Metropolitan Light Rail and Streetcar system, and ignore the needs of anyone who lives more than 1,500 feet away from a MAX station (or does not have a car to drive to a subsidized park and ride facility)?
I can name about 20 barriers to mass transit in the Portland area, most of which could be resolved by eliminating the policy of disinvestment in bus service which is further perpetuated in TriMet’s latest release of the TIP.
Now we have another fine example of the ‘strategy’ that is implemented by Ross and company.
I post a bunch of incidents and then Ross distorts what I posted by saying “only one of those incidents happened on max”. He is aware that there are four incidents that happened on the max itself because he obviously read the post and obviously he is not stupid.
He also knows that we are discussing not only the max train itself but the max stations! But he deliberately distorts my information to suit his agenda.
I’m on to you ROSS AND COMPANY!
He also knows that we are discussing not only the max train itself but the max stations!
We are? I thought the discussion was improved security on MAX. If you are claiming there are MAX stations in neighborhoods that are not entirely safe, especially at night, I agree with you.
there are four incidents that happened on the max
What four? Which ones did I miss that happened on the MAX?
He also knows that we are discussing not only the max train itself but the max stations!
We are? I thought the discussion was improved security on MAX. If you are claiming there are MAX stations in neighborhoods that are not entirely safe, especially at night, I agree with you.
there are four incidents that happened on the max
What four? Which ones did I miss that happened on the MAX?
Is this going to apply to TriMet as a system (including the bus network)
I believe this should be a system-wide study.
I really think we should have a full-fledged public opinion survey covering the entire Trimet district to ask questions about individual’s barriers to using transit as well as questions about perceived safety issues vs. actual safety issues (ex., “do you feel safe riding on Trimet buses or MAX?” followed by “have you ever been the victim of a crime on Trimet buses or MAX,” as well as “do you know anybody who has personally been the victim of a crime on Trimet buses or MAX?“; perhaps even break those apart to measure buses vs. MAX). We should have a way to measure the peoples’ perception vs. reality and also be able to compare the opinions of riders against those of nonriders.
This would be a great opportunity to determine the actual barriers to transit use in Portland if we don’t focus too heavily on the “safety” issue alone. If safety truly is a major issue, it will rise to the top of the list on it’s own.
Since we’ve been talking a lot about bad experiences on transit and negative perceptions about transit, check out this heartwarming post by Dieselboi over at Metroblogging Portland which is entirely positive and even involves panhandling.