Factoid from today’s regional Streetcar conference.
Prague in the Czech Republic with a regional population of about 1.9M has a Streetcar fleet of 900 vehicles.
Portland, with its regional population of 2.1M has 10 cars in its fleet.
Room for growth :-)
23 responses to “900:10 Opportunity”
You appear to have neglected the somewhat significant fleet of TriMet cars. They serve the Portland region too. I doubt the Czechs distinguish between streetcars which serve the city centre and regional LRT cars.
Oh, those :-)
OK, 900:105.
Still lots of room for growth.
@Stephen Rees: I assume you’re referring to MAX cars. Portland loses on that count, too, as Prague has, in addition to its excellent network of streetcars, 3 subway lines that run in sets with 8-10 cars each. These run 24 hours a day with daytime frequencies between 5 and 10 minutes. While I have no idea of the actual size of their subway fleet, I guarantee it’s much larger than TriMet’s fleet of MAX cars.
There’s a lot to learn from Prague. Outside of their immediate downtown core, streetcars tend to get their own dedicated right of way, with some smaller sections within their core. Portland does have one advantage over Prague, the convenience of the Red Line connecting to the airport. To get the airport in Prague by public transit involves transferring from the end of one of the subway lines and then transferring to a bus that runs to the airport.
Prague’s subway system and Portland’s MAX do share one common feature, the use of the honor system for fare enforcement.
Portland has a long way to go before it has a transit system as functional and convenient as Prague’s. Prague is a great city, I highly encourage a visit.
I also was very impressed with the Prague streetcar and transit network. I don’t support, however, the conclusion that similar populations indicate similar support for a streetcar fleet.
While spending time in Prague, I noticed that there didn’t seem to be a lot of car parks or other parking facilities in their downtown core, which served to limit car commute traffic. (I could be wrong, however, and simply missed them.) Portland, on the other hand, has a significant amount of car commute traffic already flowing into the downtown core, and has the parking facilities to support it (at least right now).
As I traveled out from the downtown core, neighborhood density in Prague also didn’t seem to drop off as precipitously as it does here, and density is key to running these things effectively. We’re headed in the right direction in these terms, but we have a long way to go.
Could we support more cars and more lines? Properly planned (which right now is definitely in the eye of the beholder), sure. Hundreds more streetcars, though? I don’t think we’ll be there for a while.
According to the always-accurate Wikipedia, the Prague Tram system has “133 kilometres of track, 951 tram cars, and 35 lines” (I count 36 from the entry: 26 day routes (4:30 a.m. to 1 a.m.), 9 night routes (midnight to 6 a.m.), and one historic route), plus a cable car and a chairlift within the zoo that is part of the tram system.
Their three-line Metro system has 54 stations over a 54.7 km network. Which means the MAX system is long with more stations. (I don’t know how ridership compares, though: the Wikipedia article attributes “daily ridership” on the Prague system as 1,411,200 in 2005, but since there are only 1.9 million in the entire Prague Metro area, I question that number.)
So Chris was right the first time. 900:10. Or maybe 951:10.
Also, 133:10 (give or take) for track, and 36:1 for lines.
Like Chris said: there’s room for growth.
That should have been “MAX system is longer”
I really wish we could edit these posts.
“Portland has a long way to go before it has a transit system as functional and convenient as Prague’s.”
>>>> If Portland keeps going on its present course, it will end up with a dysfunctional and inconvenient transit system, in the opinion of this Trimet customer.
Nick and the libertarians are correct. Do we really want to turn Portland into a third-world city, such as Prague, Paris, London, or Switzerland? It would be such a travesty!
zilfondel Says:
“Nick and the libertarians are correct. Do we really want to turn Portland into a third-world city, such as Prague, Paris, London, or Switzerland? It would be such a travesty!”
How about Curitiba, Brazil where the transit companies are private? and it is rated as one of the world’s best, if not the best.
BTW how much of the transit system in London is government run?
Mw
I don’t know how ridership compares, though: the Wikipedia article attributes “daily ridership” on the Prague system as 1,411,200 in 2005, but since there are only 1.9 million in the entire Prague Metro area, I question that number.
The figure probably measures daily boardings, which would be about 700,000 round trips, which could maybe mean something like 500,000 commutes and 200,000 round trip errands. Also it’s important to keep in mind the very heavy tourist volume in Prague.
I easily came across Prague Public Transit Co.’s official website (dpp.cz), which has a statistical overview page (and even in English! In fact, a good portion of their website is in English):
http://www.dpp.cz/index.php?q=en/data-facts
BTW, if you add up the numbers in the “Economic Indicators” section, and assume them to be all of their income, fares are about 38.65%.
This is TriMet’s factsheet:
trimet.org/pdfs/publications/factsheet.pdf
This lists TriMet’s Fiscal Yr. 2006 fare revenue at 20.69%.
We’re a much smaller system then they are.
Based on what I heard when I was in Prague two years ago, I think the ridership numbers are correct. Virtually everyone rides daily.
>> Nick and the libertarians are correct. Do we really want to turn Portland into a third-world city, such as Prague, Paris, London, or Switzerland?
I could not agree more. London contracted out their transit business and saved about 50%. Copenhagen did likewise and saved about 25% and Stockholm the same and saved 20%.
Then much of the transit in Brazil is in private hands and operates well.
Might be we could learn something by looking at what others have done.
MHW
I agree that the concept of the free market is basically a cult among those anti gummint folks. Luckily those folks are marginalized in society although their presence on the internet makes them appear more numerous then they are.
The Scandinavian countries operate in socialist system, and Brazil is one of the poorest countries on earth! So you better find better examples of the free market actually working!
There was a letter to the editor recently in which the writer complained about the idea of Portland ever being considered a world-class city, and looked instead to Seattle. Hah! The writer’s world-class city measurements were big corporations and skyscraper skylines. If the number or percentage of people who walk and bike around our fair Northwest cities were used as a measurement, Portland would leave Seattle far behind. If the percentage of parked cars as opposed to the number of dangerously speeding cars were used as a measurement, again Portland would have the advantage. Is Portland a world-class city? I have to say yes, especially when compared to abominably disorienting bugdoms like Seattle.
Wells Says The writer’s world-class city measurements were big corporations and skyscraper skylines.
JK: Portland is a leader is driving out those big corporations and their stinking family wage jobs
Wells Says If the number or percentage of people who walk and bike around our fair Northwest cities were used as a measurement, Portland would leave Seattle far behind.
JK: Of course if you want a model city where they REALLY walk and bike, look to central Africa or much of south America. Poverty is the best way to get people to walk and bike. Portland is working hard on that goal to as it gives billions to developers to build unsalable condos and tax abatements to build unaffordable, out of neighborhood scale apartments along all bus lines.
Thanks
JK
>>Wells Says If the number or percentage of people who walk and bike around our fair Northwest cities were used as a measurement, Portland would leave Seattle far behind.stinking family wage jobs?
Poverty is the best way to get people to walk and bike. Portland is working hard on that goal to as it gives billions to developers to build unsalable condos and tax abatements to build unaffordable, out of neighborhood scale apartments along all bus lines.
Sure, whatever.
That must be exactly what comes into most people’s minds when they see all the bike and streetcar users in the Pearl and South Waterfront: “Poverty”.
– Bob R.
Based on what I heard when I was in Prague two years ago, I think the ridership numbers are correct. Virtually everyone rides daily.
If you have perhaps 20% of the population boarding the subway several times each day, I can see getting a daily ridership figure of 1.4 million in a population of 1.9 million. I can also see how an extensive tram network could support the subway. It just seemed a little off to me that a city with only three subway lines could get that large a share of daily transportation. The New York subway has over two dozen lines and 650+ miles of track, making it one of the most extensive metro systems on earth, but Prague’s subway appears to have higher daily ridership when expressed as a percentage of the population.
it gives billions to developers to build unsalable condos and tax abatements to build unaffordable, out of neighborhood scale apartments
“Unsalable?” Where? What condo project has large numbers of units sitting unsold for a year or more? Details, please. (I’m serious: if there are a lot of “unsalable” units out there, some of the seller must be getting pretty desperate by now and, I could use a cheap place to live.)
Portland is a leader is driving out those big corporations and their stinking family wage jobs
I’m calling you on this one, too: name five big corporations that have been “driven out” of Portland in the past three decades (as opposed to leaving for their own reasons like Georgia Pacific moving closer to its operations in the south, or being acquired by larger companies).
Just to clarify, in Prague, the driver for high ridership would be the extensive surface system of Streetcars (Trams), not the subway.
Chris says
“Based on what I heard when I was in Prague two years ago, I think the ridership numbers are correct. Virtually everyone rides daily.”
Is this good?
The Czechs for many centuries have been major military weapons producers, giving the English language such words as “pistol” and “howitzer.” They also have started producing a larger number of hunting arms. I am not sure where the various compnaies have their HQs at, but the State owned aircraft industry is controlled out of Prague. In decline for the last few decades, the admission of the Czech republic to NATO provided a new incentive to reorganize this industry for anticipated demand. In other words Prague reaps great benefit from this industry. And they also have a lot of beer halls, from whence comes the term “pilsner.” Someday, I would like to go there, sample the beer and do some target practice. With a howitzer.
Here’s a good reference article:
http://www.radio.cz/en/issue/61019
The Czech weapons industry has its ups and downs. But on the bright side—at least they don’t make cheap copies of the AK-47 and send them to terrorist groups around the world. Not as far as I know, anyway.
On the other hand resource extraction and construction economies require a greater deal of mobility.
I think a centrally directed mass transit system fuorishes best in a somewhat decadent capitalist economy with large corporate offices, financial institutions, exchanges, and attendant luxury providers. San Francisco is a very clear example.
This entry’s comments went to hell in a hand basket.
…so, maybe I’ll find something useful in another entry. :(