Congestion in Core Portland is Killing People and Businesses


Paul Edgar is a retired business automation consultant who has been active in transportation issues for more the 10-years in the Portland/Vancouver region. Last year he was one of the students with the PSU/PDOT transportation class.

Congestion in core Portland is killing people and businesses. We do not have the desire or the finances to add more capacity to our roads and freeways. We know that we cannot make changes in piece-meal fashion where we can destroy any balance that exists with our major connections coming into and through core Portland on I-5/I-405/I-84 and Westside highway 26.

Congestion is most often a result of high levels of commuter traffic in the AM and PM Peak Period Rush Hours (PPRH). This can be demonstrated on with vehicle count information gathered on the mentioned I-5/I-405/I-84 corridors and Highway 26 coming into and through Portland.

We need to create alternatives to the use of these corridors and dependence on the use of these corridors because there are NO reasonable alternatives to their use.

One element in reducing this killing congestion can be found in the use of (Transportation Demand Management) TDM/Tolling methods in Peak Period Rush Hours. We cannot continue to KILL PEOPLE and that is exactly what is happening with, using an example of the I-5 corridor through Portland.

It has been reported by multiple sources that the I-5 corridor between Portland and Vancouver Washington has the 3rd worse air quality conditions found in America right now. The people who are paying the price the most are those who live within 1000 feet of this freeway followed by those caught in the congestion. All of these stakeholders to the most part are trapped by the fate of their choices. Many are however just kids and they do not have a vote or a choice, until they become of age.

So what can we do right now to reduce this level of congestion that is KILLING PEOPLE and that is to put on new and aggressive TDM/Tolling methods on all freeway, interstate corridors and major state highways that feed into downtown Portland. These TDM/Tolling Stations can be placed at each of the metered on-ramps that feed into this network of roads.


78 responses to “Congestion in Core Portland is Killing People and Businesses”

  1. Let’s build a real metro system in Portland while we’re at it: cover the entire metro area with decent rapid transit and bus coverage. Commuter rail and rapid/express bus to outlying suburbs & cities. If we had the balls… and I think we do.

    Heck, Bloomberg just announced they’re going to implement congestion charging to NYC!

    $8 autos/$21 for trucks per day in Manhattan

    http://tinyurl.com/2f77dx

  2. “How does this affect low income people’s ability to get to work?

    Thanks
    JK”

    Oh, you mean the same low income people that are forced to drive cars to work? Forced to pay an exorbitant portion of their income towards fuel, maintenance, insurance, and car purchases, then end up stuck in traffic wasting time and breathing crappy air?

    [personally directed remark removed]

  3. Paul –

    This got raised elsewhere, but how do you collect tolls at every on-ramp? While regular users can pay electronically, you still need some way for people who don’t have an electronic sensor to pay the toll.

    I think some form of congestion pricing set to manage the amount of traffic so that the freeway is at least free flowing has some merit. The other issue is highways like 217 in Washington County that are used as local roads and there are not a lot of alternatives.

  4. I am pretty sure I read in one of the Times articles that they (Ny DOT?) will just zap your license plate and send you a bill when you enter the pricing zone. Of course, I can see civil liberties advocates having issues with that.

  5. The other issue is highways like 217 in Washington County that are used as local roads and there are not a lot of alternatives.

    Translated: None.

    Oh yeah, there is no real transit availability in the 217 corridor either.

  6. Slow, stop and go rush hour traffic creates extra pollution. Traffic moving at a steady pace burns less fuel and pollutes less. Our major corridors have exceeded their limits during rush hour. (Why do they call it “rush” hour anyway?)

    We talk about enhancing the major corridors by one means or another and find fault with most options. One possibility not often mentioned is reducing the actual rush hour by encouraging or even mandating staggered working hours.

    I work 6 to 2:30 and have yet to experience a rush hour. The buses have seats, the roads are not too busy, nearly empty at 5:30 am. There are many other options, too, such as carpooling, 4 ten hour work days/week, or telecommuting now and then. Also, there are options to motorized transport such as bikes or walking.

    It is long past time to break out of the obsolete thinking that the only way to work is to drive your car. Gas is now well over $3/gallon and escalating every week. The cost is too great to continue on the path we have been on for the last 50 years. Even if we had ample roadways to handle the worst rush hour, many of us will soon not be able to afford to drive them. When gas hits perhaps $5/gallon many of these issues will be solved.

  7. Translated: None.

    Not quite. Murray, Hall … You can avoid 217 for local trips, but its not easy sometimes.

  8. We have an approximate 4-hour AM Peak Period Rush or will have it shortly. The majority of the vehicles that cause and extend this AM Rush Hours out are commuters going to work.

    I agree that we have not created adequate alternatives for most of these commuters in secondary arterial and transit options.

    But this does not mean that we can accept the inadvertent consequences of congestion.

    WE MUST TAKE ACTIONS NOW, NOT LATER, that reduces and/or eliminates the primary cause of this congestion and that is to reduce the number of vehicles in the primary corridors

    The advantage of using TDM/Tolling methods in only the AM and PM Peak Period Rush Hours and setting rates that are greater then alternative transit options is;

    That users are faced with option to choose other times, routes and modes that do not feed into this congestion.

    Revenue derived from the TDM/Tolls can be split with 50% going to fund new alternate roads and highways and 50% to Bike, PED and Transit options and alternative completely seperate then what we now have.

  9. Part of the reason that London could implement a congestion charge so easily is because they already had a system that took pictures of license plates on all streets, and tracked their movement, (specifically, they were looking for car bombs from the IRA.) The civil liberties people already hated the system, the billing part was the best thing that happened to it.

    But just implementing TDM in a few places, (the Columbia River bridge, for instance,) or a few roads, (I-5,) wouldn’t be that hard at all, and yes, people that didn’t have a electronic pass are sent bills all the time by toll roads in lots of places, the staffed tollbooth is rapidly becoming obsolete.

  10. The major interior interconnecting Portland area freeway corridors of I-5/I-405/I-84 and highway 26 are currently inadequate but we do not have the possible $20-Billion Dollars that it would take to try to make a difference and should we.

    If we had adequate Concurrency Laws/ORS we would be forced to evaluate all impacts coming from all new development to ensure that it does not impact society negatively. This would require an actuary to calculate impacts on the people and economy to ensure that all projected impacts are adequately addressed and funded or a permit is not allowed.

    Without needed concurrency laws on the books we just turn our head and take NO action and that is where we are today.

    Using Peak Period Rush Hour TDM/Tolling methods forces everyone to take steps to come to grips with inadequate capacity.

  11. Not quite. Murray, Hall … You can avoid 217 for local trips, but its not easy sometimes.

    Exactly. Thus, there are no alternatives for 217.

    To get from 26/Barnes area to I5/Kruse Way area you have to take several surface streets that pass through several major congestion spots and at times drop speed limits to the twenties.

    Murray to Jenkins or Walker to Cedar Hills to Hall to Bonita or Durham through the worst most congested parts of Beaverton and Tigard, has several school zones, and a few railroad crossings. If you want to avoid downtown Beaverton on this route you can take Murray to Hart and cut through residential areas, or cut over on Allen which is not too much better but better than downtown beaverton. Cedar hills can get you from 26 as well, but is slow especially around the Beaverton Mall (Cedar Hills Crossing).

    North/East of 217 there is no real alternative – mostly residential streets like Dosch, Hamilton, Humphrey and the like. South/West of 217 there is not much either without going very far out and using Roy Rogers or something.

    The problem with this corridor is that ALL of the major surface streets run diagonally SouthWest to NorthEast – or east / west. Which realistically leave the only real major North/South or SouthEast to NorthWest route as 217.

    And the bus service is terrible. The only route that really parallels 217 is 78 which takes 2 hours to get from Beaverton Transit Center to Lake Oswego, and doesn’t cover Kruse Way and all it’s office complexes at all.

    To get from anywhere on the west side (Beaverton/Hillsboro/West Portland) to anywhere on the south or southeast side (Tualatin, Lake Oswego, Willsonville, West Linn, Oregon City) you are driving on 217 and have no real transit options.

    And don’t even mention Washington County commuter rail. It won’t help as it doesn’t run enough or serve enough people.

    The 217 corridor is, in my opinion, only slightly less messed up than the Columbia River Crossing / I5 corridor through north Portland.

    And I don’t think that an outer bypass would help much either, at least not for it’s costs and impacts.

    We need some better surface street management – more coordinated traffic management (lights and ramps and such). We need better transit options in the SW metro region, that actually go where people live, work, and play. And we need a third lane on 217 (make all those exit/on ramp lanes go all the way through).

  12. Some of the side benefits of agressive TDM/Tolling in the Peak Period Rush Hours are:

    Room for our trucks that keeps our commerce and basic economy working. It would be just like adding lanes to our freeways.

    It would eliminate maybe 90% of the drivers who are jumping on to the freeway for short hop’s when there are other alternatives and other options. To many people just do not have to be on our critical freeway and highways in the Peak Periods, so lets price them out.

    If enough of people scream (the squeakie wheel) we might find out that we had better come up with solutions that truly solve the congestion problems and create real working alternatives.

    This so much better then putting $6-Billion dollars into replacing the Interstate Bridges, inducing more vehicles into the I-5 corridor and having little or NO money left over to solve transportation problems the CRC project will cause.

    Everyone knows that just extending MAX/LRT into Vancouver will not force commuters to use this alternative. It will help but there is need for more alternatives that may have greater impacts but until we crank down on the pocket books of everyone we will get more of the same oh, same oh.

    I have faith that responsible citizenry will not sit back and let more of the in-action and BS associated with failure to identify needed alternatives that are balanced with reality.

  13. Even with all the “Traffic Demand Management” in the world, it will only cause gridlock given Portland’s poor “total transit system”.

    MAX is great – if you live within walking distance of it. That includes parts of Hillsboro, Beaverton, Portland and Gresham. As I found out last night, TriMet’s “frequent service” is not, as they claim, 15 minutes any time all the time.

    Without proper transit solutions – and rail is far too costly and takes too long to build – this area isn’t going anywhere. I’ve already proposed that TriMet began to ramp up high density mass transit using articulated busses that can be ordered, delivered, and placed into service within a short period of time, without causing unnecessary drains on finances or resorting to “creative financing” (which in TriMet’s glossary is “rob Peter (busses) to pay Paul (rail)).

    Portland is no longer a 8-5 workday city; TriMet shouldn’t act as such. Just because OHSU and PSU have certain hours, doesn’t mean that the working adults of this city do – and TriMet is not the “Oregon University System Transportation Agency”. Once we have workable, usable transit that reaches virtually all residents of the metro area and at all times of the day, with reasonable schedules – we will see a marked improvement in ridership.

    Seattle is doing it. What is Portland waiting for?

  14. Looking at the schedule, Line 78 takes one hour and not two to get from Beaverton to Lake Oswego. Not that that’s great, but maybe commuter rail will improve things. No it won’t go to Kruse Way or many other places, but it will provide better, faster connections (vs. the 78) between buses/MAX trains that do go to those places. And Line 76 is slated to become Frequent Service, helping travel when commuter rail isn’t running.

  15. Sheldon, I first read it in the Oregonian and it was addressing air quality problems in and immediately around the I-5 corridor. If I remember correct it referenced the fact that we have conditions where bad air coming from Boardman PGE Plant power plant blow down the gorge (with the right conditions) it is conbined with high levels of emissions which are a direct result congestion.

    Lewis Clark College has measured significant higher levels of Asthma in North Portland and other air born illnesses.

    We all know that what is happening is not healthy.

  16. I doubt I-5 through Portland is among the nation’s worst polluted freeway corridors; not even close. Nor do I find it appropriate to claim its current level of congestion is killing people and businesses. And, if I may continue this barage of contrariness, I do NOT know that “extending MAX LRT into Vancouver will NOT force commuters to use this alternative”, nor do I appreciate any claim that my support is akin to “forcing” commuters to use MAX thank you very much.

    I am certain that the broadest demographic and majority of transit users prefer MAX over buses, and am just as certain that a MAX line to Vancouver will do more to reduce traffic congestion on I-5 than a Transportation Demand Management scheme, more even a new bridge over the Columbia.

    My support for MAX is based upon its capability to direct wise land-use, smart growth, mixed-use development and the 2040 Regional Plan, which all seem to me far more appropriate, palatable and promising solution to our traffic nightmare than an Orwellian tax scheme like TDM.

  17. Wells,

    I am a huge proponent of MAX AND of TDM. The unfortunate aspect of rush hour traffic is that even if people were to take MAX from Vancouver, or from any other place, there would still be incredible traffic, and eventually the same level. Why? Even if a certain share of people left I-5, it would still be as cheap as it is today. However, less people on I-5 would make it even CHEAPER in terms of time wasted. That means that new faces will be appearing on I-5 to take advantage of this uncongested road. This is just the same as adding a lane.

    This would bring sprawl and just the kind of unwise land-use and un-smart growth that you are rallying against. Besides, with the money generated through tolling, a MAX line to Vancouver, and anywhere else, can be initiated that much faster.

    The point is that both things have to happen, transit and TDM. Otherwise congestion will always be with us.

  18. Wells, thank you for your comments and let me try to provide reasonable answers and comments to what you have said.

    First, maybe we can’t believe everything we read in the Oregonian but they had their sources. When the subject of bad air and polution levels in the corridor have been brought up with ODOT peopel and academia most everyone agreed that this was correct. No one considered the air qualtiy conditions acceptable.

    At a recent CRC meeting a lady come before the meeting and outlined in detail her problems and those of her children. Lewis and Clark students as part of a class identified that these air north Portland quality conditions as on having dramatic consequences on the health of people living next to the corridor, but they are only students.

    Cost of Congestion Report identified that congestion will prevent businesses from competing with other areas and locations where they have little or no congestion to live with. If our local businesses rely on just-in-time delieveries and part of their supply chain management requirements and they are unable to acheive this supply in a timely and economically appropriate manner they just can’t exist. This in-effect KILLS BUSINESS, KILLS JOB CREATION AND KILLS CRITICAL INVESTMENT and that is just because of congestion.

    Reasonably knowledgeable transportation and transit oriented experts have stated that MAX/LRT extended into Vancouver might reduce the current number of vehicles in the I-5 corridor by 2% at the most. Population shift from Oregon into Clark County Washington may represent 5% of the double digit growth Clark County is getting. The problem is if MAX gets only 2%, it means each year the problems get worse. These figures are good in that Clark County measures this activity with people turning in the their Oregon Drivers Licenses.

    The CRC report and the Bi-State Transportation and Trade Partnership Study suggested that we must use TDM/Tolling to make any change work in the corridor.

    To make MAX/LRT work we have to make significant new investments in creating new feeder routes that connect transit hubs/centers to industrial and work centers and in tothe neighborhoods where people live. This requires dramatic change over what we have now or MAX just sits out there as an entity all toits self and we get less then expected return on lower ridership then what could be acheived.

    Another thing is that maybe over half of the Clark County residents are ex-Oregonians and the majority do not share the urban life style goals of the majority of the Portland citizenry. They like their cars and suburban life styles and that is the reason why many left Oregon in the first place.

    I for one would like for one would like MAX, if extended into Clark County, to be a success. I also know from having lived in Clark from 14-years that MAX is a hard sell to many of these anti-Oregonian people.

    At the ballot box if Clark County voters were asked to approve a bi-state taxing authority where Tri-Met was the majority and controlling entity, a majority of the citizenry would vote against this authority and thereby rip apart any possibility of extending MAX into Clark County. It maybe 55% against but that is enough.

    You put a new wide big CRC replacement Interstate Bridge into the picture that makes it easier to get across the river and you have added a disincentive to using MAX/LRT. It is another reason not to replace the Interstate Bridges.

    Transit Center Developments take a long time to make much of a difference. They are good because they provide options where people do not need to spread out, where we can acheive higher densities and less demand on cars. But these developments fill the need of only a small percentage of the population growth but a very important percentage.

    We just can’t continue with ever growing congestions levels and to me we are now at the breaking point and we cannot wait to start turning around the ship of self distruction.

    It will be the people who will say when enough is enough. I would hope that TDM/Tolling would get us away from where are now and that is with to many people with their collective heads in the sand. We need real solutions, new alternatives and options that provide greater capacity or we end up killing the “Chicken that Lays the Golden Egg”.

  19. I would like to officially propose a MAX line from BTC to LO via Hall Blvd. It could hit Washington Square Mall and facilitate much higher densities throughout the corridor.

    While commuter rail will also be excellent in the corridor, it is primarily designed to bring in commuters up from Wilsonville, and as people have pointed out (and I have experienced from personal experience), transit service in the corridor is BEYOND abysmal.

    This area in the Metro area is much deserving of a transit corridor, just like the east side is getting with the new 205 MAX line. And there are hundreds of thousands of residents and jobs in the corridor to boot.

  20. Paul,

    I both agree and disagree with you in your assessment. We do need more roadway capacity in the Portland Regional area, and it needs to be spread out not being all concentrated on the current freeways and within the present Interstate corridors. I disagree with you however on tolling.

    In your opening statement, you said: “We do not have the desire or the finances to add more capacity to our roads and freeways.” I believe the desire is there to add capacity among those who commute by motor vehicle, by those people and businesses where a motor vehicle is an interracial part of their employment or business for earning a living, and by the freight carrier and trucking communities. These three hard working and time constrained groups alone create a majority. I also however believe there is a desire among elected politicians not to listen to these people and only hear what they want to hear, such as from the vocal alternative mode activists. A person only needs to look at the stacked decks on citizen advisory committees and Metro’s money requests to the Fed to demonstrate this mindset. Furthermore, I also believe there is more roadway money currently available than the politicians would have the public believe. Part of the problem is that monies that were once dedicated to roadways are now being siphoned off for everything from bicycle infrastructure to streetcars to transit operations to land development. Roadway dollars are also being pilfered on curb extensions, couplet proposals and roadway bottleneck creation that all adds up to congestion and gridlock rather than accommodating the roadway needs of a growing region and an increasing population. Then, after all this squandering and wasteful spending, PDOT for example claims poverty when it comes to street maintenance.

    What we do not need in the Portland area are roadway, freeway and bridge tolls; restricted toll lanes; and congestion pricing that creates Lexus lanes and freeways which only the affluent can afford use. This iwould be discrimination by class, separating communities rather than bringing them closer together.

    What the Portland area however does need is considerably more stakeholder motorist and freight carrier representation within the public process, and a balanced transportation tax system where by the bicycling community taxes themselves to pay for bicycle infrastructure, and transit fares better reflect the costs of providing the service.

  21. We just can’t continue with ever growing congestions levels

    All the evidence says not only can Portland continue with its current congestion, but that it likely will. Some people will opt out by car pooling, changing housing and job locations, using transit, biking or walking. Adding other costs to creating congestion through things like tolls will discourage some people. But there seems to be a very large number of people out there who will continue to create congestion regardless of what public measures are taken to prevent it.

  22. I would like to officially propose a MAX line from BTC to LO via Hall Blvd. It could hit Washington Square Mall and facilitate much higher densities throughout the corridor.

    I have already suggested a Portland-Tualatin MAX route that would connect Burlingame, Multnomah Village, Garden Home, Progress/Washington Square, Tigard, Durham, and Tualatin with high quality transit, while offering connections to numerous bus lines that serve the various neighborhoods, and doesn’t displace any other form of transit (especially bus, but also roadway).

    A Washington Square-Beaverton TC Shuttle Line could be constructed, but I would not use Hall Blvd. (due to an excessive grade from Fanno Creek northwest to Hart Blvd.) I’d rather use Highway 217.

    “Higher Density” doesn’t require MAX, it requires a decent mix of usable and friendly transit – evn if it’s a bus. My purpose in my suggested MAX route is to connect communities, which otherwise dump all their traffic onto I-5 and 217 – existing, dense communities.

    (By the way, Kruse Way would be served by a shuttle bus from a MAX stop at Bonita Road. Commuter Rail won’t do that.)

  23. Ross W. statement: “All evidence say not only can Portland continue with its current congestion but that it likely will”, scares me.

    It is not a sustainable position, it is just poor public policy and Ross maybe right.

    That is one of the reasons why we must rock the boat and with TDM/Tolling. When citizenry has to take money out of their pockets they start asking questions and expect results.

    Currently Metro, PDOT and ODOT have little or NO plans that solve the congestion problems. We the public have to hld their feet to the fire.

    We need to involve the public in a debate with the question of what are smart transportation investments with proven results.

  24. “Currently Metro, PDOT and ODOT have little or NO plans that solve the congestion problems.”

    Paul,

    What evidence do you have of this? From what I read they seem to be taking it pretty seriously. Money, on the other hand, to really deal with it is a different issue.

  25. There is too an alternative! How about we eliminate the Metro densification mandates and spread people out a little better? With Measure 37 and the failure of the politicians to put a kibosh on it, this will hopefully happen! This densification experiment has failed miserably, cost us all way too much and has been detrimental to the area livabiliy. It time to move on. More people crammed into tiny spaces = more neurotic people = more people to die simultaneously in case of a nuclear or natural catastrophy! Portland really needs to stop dictating how the rest of the region and state operate. Open up some competition and give people CHOICES, not cubicles and overpriced toy trains that get you nowhere in a hurry.

  26. So how do low income people pay the extra fee? Find a new, lower paying job? Spend more time away from their families by switching to tranist? Have fewer job choices by switching to tranist?

    PS,to Ron “and breathing crappy air”, be sure to see seeseattleweekly.com/2003-05-28/diversions/bus-ted.php and ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/big_rig_cleanup/rolling-smokestacks-cleaning-up-americas-trucks-and-buses.html
    Bottom line: cars are cleaner than buses.

    Thanks
    JK

  27. I do see a bright side. When someone schedules an event downtown, we can remind them of the charge and probably get the event moved outside of the core area. This may result in the moving of all government out of the core which will solve the congestion problem.

    Or we could just move government out of the core to where the people are and solve the congestion problem that way. (Downtown’s top 3 employers are government, as are five of the top ten – see portlandalliance.com/pdf/2005census.pdf)

    Thanks
    JK

  28. As Karlock suggest many, if not most of Trimets passangers are government workers. Many of whom get a pass to ride from the place of employment which is often free or has a reduced price.

    The rest of us who work in an area without service pay for this two, or three times over.

    As a friend once pointed out to me, on a government holiday you could roll a bowling ball down the Max from Gresham and never hit anyone.

    MHW

  29. How about we eliminate the Metro densification mandates and spread people out a little better?

    That doesn’t seem to have worked for Clark County very well. You can spread the people out, but jobs and commercial centers are going to remain compact because that is the way the economics work. How are you going to get Nike and Intel to “spread people out a little better?”

  30. While commuter rail will also be excellent in the corridor, it is primarily designed to bring in commuters up from Wilsonville

    I think you are seeing things from a Portland-centric (or Beaverton-centric) perspective. Wilsonville is a major job center – there are a lot of people who want to get there. The problem with commuter rail is its limited schedule. But I think it would make more sense to buy the rail line so that service could be increased than it would to run a light rail line along the same corridor. Extending the commuter line on the track through Lake Oswego to Milwaukie is another option that ought to be fully explored. Especially once the Milwaukie light rail line is completed.

  31. If we had adequate Concurrency Laws/ORS we would be forced to evaluate all impacts coming from all new development to ensure that it does not impact society negatively. This would require an actuary to calculate impacts on the people and economy to ensure that all projected impacts are adequately addressed and funded or a permit is not allowed.

    But that flies in the face of “smart growth” policies that reward increasing density (and congestion). From South Waterfront with its lack of support infrastructure, to the condos popping up all over MY neighborhood, we’re not just allowing structures to be built without adding anything to mitigate impacts, we’re subsidizing them with reduced System Development Charge fees.

    So we’ll be adding, over the next year or so, within a half-mile of my house, at least 200 new condos and apartments, a half dozen restaurants, multiple retail outlets…all without adding an inch of road or sidewalk capacity; without adding new loading zones (and waiving requirements for code-mandated ones); and without adding any transit capacity. We’ve just closed a great neighborhood school.

    This starts to feel a little irresponsible.

  32. “How about we eliminate the Metro densification mandates and spread people out a little better?

    That doesn’t seem to have worked for Clark County very well.”

    Funny how all the anti-growth people vilify Clark County. I think Clark County and Washington State in general is doing a lot better than us in job growth creation and not chasing away major employers through or anti-business climate and burdensome tax structure.

    How can you actually say that? Last time I checked Clark County was growing my leaps and bounds over the growth restricted Metro Region. Has our densification gestapo provided any statistics how “livable” our city is and how many come here solely BECAUSE they want to live in ultracramped quarters and pay sky high rent prices? I highly doubt it. Intel and Nike *ARE* spread out. They have several plants and distribution centers outside of their main corporate headquarters. Intel isn’t even BASED in Oregon but has a large presence here. More government workers per capita in the City of Portland than anywhere else (I need to verify this but someone told me something like 1 out of 5 employees in Multnomah County are government workers).

  33. Frank, I agree. The problem is that politics has nothing to do with reality.

    The only way out maybe to price out congestion with TDM/Tolling of all incidents of travel into core Portland on our freeways and highways.

  34. I congratulate Paul for being willing to suggest what today might seem to be pretty forceful measures for Portland — tolls on freeways. Others have suggested that we need effective transit alternatives to complement his proposal.

    Under the current Oregon Constitution, none of that toll money could be spent on transit. Will Oregon voters approve changing the Constitution without first seeing a comprehensive, practical, well-thought out transit plan developed with maximal public involvement?

    Where is the leadership in that direction from Metro? Metro transportation leaders seem to think that continuing to evaluate and build transit on a “project” basis rather than a “system” basis is the way to go, and that appears to be the approach in the upcoming RTP.

    A transit “system” would appropriately increase bus, streetcar, light rail, etc. service where each mode is most cost-effective, designing effective speed, coverage, and hours of service so that transit would be a reasonable alternative for many more residents.

    By the way, a “rail plan” or a “streetcar plan” just don’t cut it. Effective transit requires a hierarchy of modes with short transfer times and faster speeds for longer trips. The technical term is “multidestinational transit.” We need to clue in our political leadership about this.

  35. Wells posted: “I doubt I-5 through Portland is among the nation’s worst polluted freeway corridors; not even close”

    And you would be wrong. The I-5 corridor carries 20% of the US truck freight traffic, which is, in general much more polluting than cars. It also runs 24/7 at roughly the same volume. The effect of cars is somewhat less, especially given that during the prime auto polluting hours, most of those residents are not in the corridor – they are on their way to or at work or school. It’s the non-traffic hours, especially at night, when those people are exposed. Truck traffic at night is huge, since many truckers don’t want to drive through the city during high traffic hours, and many have to be at their destinations at early hours of the morning to make delivery.

    Truck freight issues are the main driving force (no pun intended) behind the I-5 bridge replacement project. Until and unless we expand rail capacity and encourage freight rail, truck freight both as a percentage and in absolute numbers will continue to increase, making the situation worse.

  36. I think Clark County and Washington State in general is doing a lot better than us in job growth creation and not chasing away major employers through or anti-business climate and burdensome tax structure.

    I think the data shows you are wrong. In fact Clark County is producing fewer jobs than it is houses. By contrast, the more densely developed areas of Multnomah and Washington County are producing more jobs than they can fill. And those people who can’t find jobs in Clark County are creating congestion while trying to get to Oregon where the job growth is.

    So we’ll be adding, over the next year or so, within a half-mile of my house, at least 200 new condos and apartments, a half dozen restaurants, multiple retail outlets…all without adding an inch of road or sidewalk capacity; without adding new loading zones (and waiving requirements for code-mandated ones); and without adding any transit capacity. We’ve just closed a great neighborhood school.

    This starts to feel a little irresponsible.

    I don’t think it is, whether it feels that way or not. Portland clearly has a surplus of classrooms, that’s why schools are being closed. The sidewalks or neighborhood streets in southeast Portland also seem to have more than enough capacity. Widening Division isn’t necessary and isn’t going to reduce the traffic from the condos. And the transit system is hardly overloaded either.

  37. Oh, good grief! A simple measurement of air pollution along a freeway corridor is the adjoining topography. If the topography of I-5 through North Portland were in ‘bowl’ or ‘valley’, the air pollution there would settle with little chance for dispersal.

    Portland’s natural settings provide many means for controlling air pollution. Its urban forest and landscape, its rivers, rainfall and breezes provide admirable pollution control. Move to LA if you think it’s bad here.

    Mr Haywood, I finished my original post stressing the importance of land-use and development. A MAX line to Vancouver (and from there to Vancouver Mall), is likely to create thousands of jobs along the line, and more thousands throughout Vancouver. Most of these jobs will be taken by people who live in Vancouver. Thus, a MAX line reduces the amount of commuting to Portland along with premium transit service for those who continue to commute.

    This is a land-use thingybob that the Fred Flintstones of Vancouver cannot conceive as possible until they see it. It’s too bad the Barney Rubbles of Vancouver are so intimidated by Fred’s bullheaded ignorance and bouts of misdirected rage. Fred handles dirt-moving equipment very well, and he’s a fun guy to go bowling with, but he’s selfish and reckless. If it weren’t for Wilma, he would have off’d himself already. If it weren’t for Pebbles, Wilma would have left him years ago. Let’s hope Pebbles takes after her mother, rather than Fred.

  38. “I think the data shows you are wrong.”

    Can you send me a link to this data? Preferrably not something from biased Metro or City of Portland? They lie to us all the time. If you are correct then perhaps Intel and Nike should consider relocating to Clark County to be closer to their employees?

  39. If you are correct then perhaps Intel and Nike should consider relocating to Clark County to be closer to their employees?

    What makes you think there are many employees in either company who live in Clark County compared to Washington County?

    Can you send me a link to this data?

    I don’t have a link to the data and what I have seen in the past would be from some official “biased” sources. But Clark County population has been growing faster than its job market and that is projected to continue. I don’t think you will find much disagreement on that.

    Truck freight issues are the main driving force (no pun intended) behind the I-5 bridge replacement project.

    I don’t think so. The main driving force behind the I-5 bridge is housing development in rural Clark County. There is more than enough capacity for the freight traffic which makes up about 5% of the total trips. And, as you point out, even a lot of that freight is unaffected by rush hour congestion.

  40. A MAX line to Vancouver (and from there to Vancouver Mall), is likely to create thousands of jobs along the line

    Why does it take MAX to generate thousands of jobs?

    While construction jobs will come (and go) because of MAX, what is the net job growth at PDX due to the Red Line? For Gresham due to the Blue Line? Hillsboro/Beaverton? (Tektronix, Nike and Intel existed long before MAX, they don’t count.) Yellow Line?

    MAX is a part of what has occurred but it’s not the only reason. Look at Tualatin – grown by several THOUSAND percent since 1970, and it has piss-poor transit no thanks to TriMet’s inability to function as a REGIONAL transportation district; but rather it’s desire to be a PORTLAND, GRESHAM and BEAVERTON transit district.

  41. A place to start the tolling idea is with the Interstate Bridges. A toll on the existing structures…$5 oneway, inbound, would end congestion in the AM peak overnight.
    Otherwise, Portland is hardly as congested or dense as it needs to be in order to be an exciting, attractive location for new and growing innovation, business, etc.
    Portland is a relatively sleepy second tier city three hours away from a slightly more active one, but all three NW cities…Seattle, Portland and Vancouver BC are a long way from the world’s great markets and trade routes.
    Our being off the beaten track and close to the sea, mountains and the Columbia Gorge are indeed our greatest asset.
    But by all means run the Yellow Line to Vancouver and Milwaukie, the Red Line to Wilsonville and the Green Line to Eric in Tigard. The sooner the better.

  42. Mr Halstead, look at the Yellow Line. Kaiser expanded, Providence put in a clinic, Fred Meyer remodelled, a big health food store went in, Kenton got an upgrade and an apartment complex, every empty and poorly used lot along Interstate is bound to develop.

    Out in Gresham, a huge shopping complex, a new city hall complex, apartment complexes all along the line between there and Gateway. Still, there are underused lots that will develop in time.

    On the Westside MAX, Downtown Hillsboro got its new city hall, fire and police complex, the hospital is expanding. The downtown businesses may not be thriving yet, but with all the new housing complexes at Orenco, Quatama, Willow Creek, Hawthorne Station, etc, downtowns Hillsboro and Beaverton are bound to eventually fill in their empty lots with commercial development and create many jobs.

    Best of all, these stations can be accessed from anywhere along the MAX system. Expect the same sort of development pattern in Vancouver. Maybe Vancouverits will develop a conscience about their tax-dodging ways.

  43. Frank Dufay said: “From South Waterfront with its lack of support infrastructure, to the condos popping up all over MY neighborhood, we’re not just allowing structures to be built without adding anything to mitigate impacts, we’re subsidizing them with reduced System Development Charge fees.”

    Frank, I agree with you. The density of development has gone more than just a little crazy. In my neighborhood, on one of the through streets, there is a four to six unit apartment being built, wedged in sideways so I can not tell the exact number. A small house once stood on the property. The new structure takes up almost the entire lot so there is no green space and no parking provided. The street in front already has plenty of parked cars on it so the new building will add competition for curb space. The apartment building next door is also wedged in sideways, but was moved there from another location several years ago. It was placed in a big back yard of an existing house and is not as deep so there is limited parking just off the street for some of the units. However, the two buildings are so close together, a person living in one can probably tell you what a person is doing in the other; showering, cooking dinner, extra curricular activities, etc. No matter how nice inside these units may be, they are likely to become tenement slums where there is a constant turn over of the people living there. They simply do not offer any quality of life due to their proximity to each other, absence of adequate parking and lack of any amenities like green space yards on the property. This type of new construction should simply not be allowed.

  44. “The density of development has gone more than just a little crazy.”

    Yet they call this ‘livable’? I call it an insult. They want us to be packed in like sardines everywhere – in our commutes, in our own living spaces, at work in tiny cubicles. This is beyond ridiculous. It’s no wonder why the voters expressed their dissatisfaction with status quo, even in the liberal Multnomah County bastion, in passing Measure 37! Supposedly the voters have “now changed their minds” but their attempt to refer it back to the voters failed miserably. Hopefully there will soon be a revolt against this densification mandate and transit stupidity.

  45. They want us to be packed in like sardines everywhere – in our commutes, in our own living spaces, at work in tiny cubicles.

    Who exactly are they? I think this is a case of wanting the amenities of both living in an urban setting and a rural setting. I used to claim my ideal lifestyle was living in the mountains next to the ocean just near Manhattan and take the ferry each morning from Sausalito across San Francisco Bay to get to work. Possible? No. The same way if you can’t have a city in the country or a country estate in the city.

  46. “They” want us to live in fenced, wage-slave housing compounds far from life’s normal activities, occupations and necessities, with no means to access them but “their” automobiles which “they” say cost less.

    Bwah ah ah ahh ahh ahhhh!

  47. We have inadequate capacity in our total transportaion system in the region but it is most felt in the core of Portland. If we deploy the use of TDM/Tolling methods they maust be inacted across the board with NO exceptions.

    They will reduce the number of motor vehicles on the roads that have TDM/Tolling by pricing out most who would find other alternative choices then paying a TDM/Toll.

    They will provide new revenue opportunities to develop new alternatives to existing transportation options.

    This will force change in thinking at every level.

    This will result in effectively adding capacity to our roads for those who choose to pay their TDM/Tolls and for businesses that rely on our critical highways this will have a very definate pay off with significant reductions in costs of deliveries.

    Putting TDM/Tolling into place for the 4-hours of the AM Peak Period Rush Hours (6 to 10AM) and 4-hours of the PM Peak Period Rush Hours (3 to 7PM) means, that anyone can schedule the use of any of the TDM/Tolled roads, highways and freeways outside of those hours and they do not have to pay anything extra.

    Washington starts collecting its tolls on SR-500 and SR-14 and at all metered ramps that feed the I-5 corridor before anyone gets to the I-5 Interstate Bridges for all south bound traffic.

    In Oregon ODOT starts collecting tolls at all on-ramps feeding the I-5 corridor starting at Hayden Island for all south bound traffic that flows into core Portland.

    If we placed a TDM/Toll on each incident of travel of approximately $2.00 This could result in a reduction of between 30% to 50% use of these roads in the affected hours.

    This would eliminate most Peak Period Rush Hour congestion and emissions.

    This gets our trucks moving and our economy running 7/24 with major cost saving to the businesses by allowing for just-in-time deliveries in these Peak Periods letting them pay a toll but they get there twice as fast.

    It might cost $1-Billion but when compared to to $6-Billion for just the CRC I-5 Interstate Bridge replacement that does not solve anything but make the problems worse moving the problem into core Portland this maybe our only salvation. It is a hell of a lot less money and it addresses the big picture of the region as a whole.

    This will work, this will reduce congestion when it is on all of our major feeder roads, highways and freeways comeing from the south, north, east and west into Portland.

    Yes, we need alternative to these roads, highways, and freeways. These alternatives can and should be new arterial improvements, where proven and appropriate. They must include new transit options and opportunities the provide comuters with real competitive and timely options that get commuter from home to work without the use of a car. It must bring balance where modes compliment the needs of the users and the environment in a sustainable fashion.

    I for one do not want to see any money spent that does not have a payoff on any transportation infrastructure. I also know that we cannot fund and rebuild all of the needed improvements to our roads, highways and freeways in our region, without some major changes, so here is and option that will work.

  48. Hi JK,

    Are 50 cars cleaner than one bus?

    And do they take up less Portland real estate?

    And do they take less materials to make?

    Just curious.

  49. People COULD work in the rural areas (or Clark County where it’s cheaper to live) if more employers were comfortable with allowing their employees to telecommute! High-speed fixed wireless is now available in most of Oregon now. Speed is better than DSL but a little slower than Cable. Increased telecommuting could take care of a lot of congestion problems, too. Rural folks could still have city-like work and just go into town when they need groceris and supplies. Employees can actually be MORE productive in a telecommuniting arrangement because they aren’t distracted with coworkers and having to play political games at the office.

  50. If we deploy the use of TDM/Tolling methods they maust be inacted across the board with NO exceptions.

    I don’t see why. The use of TDM on the bridges over the Columbia is a different situation than Highway 217 in Washington County. For one thing, if the tolls are collected on the Washington side of the river they aren’t subject to Oregon’s constitutional limitations on their use. But more important, tolling the Columbia bridges and spending the money on alternatives benefits everyone. The people paying the toll get a less congested road, the folks who don’t pay the toll get high quality alternatives and Portland streets don’t get choked with Clark County commuter traffic.

    Its not clear that you get a similar set of benefits from tolling Highway 217 or 26 or the Banfield. You might, but there is no reason not to evaluate that on a case by case basis.

  51. This is not about just the I-5 corridor or Clark County commuters it is about a failing transportation system and planning.

    It is about an assult on our environment with NO solution at hand.

    It is about no one trying to find a sustainable solutions to the problems of Peak Period Rush Hours. The rest of the hours take care of themselves and are not a problem.

    It is about the lack of will and leadership.

    It is about the lack of funding and special interests that push programs that bring litttle or not benefit and politics as usual.

    We need an actuarials looking at transportation solutions not politicians. We need solutions that bring benefits that are measurable in a balanced sustainable (good for business too) world.

  52. “Truck traffic at night is huge, since many truckers don’t want to drive through the city during high traffic hours, and many have to be at their destinations at early hours of the morning to make delivery.”

    That is not true. Metro just did a study of truck traffic through the region and presented the results to TPAC last week.

    Truck traffic peaks mid day, and drops off significantly in the off hours. (whereas passenger traffic peaks twice, morning and evening rush hours)

    It is a VERY comprehensive study with LOTS and LOTS of data. If you contact Metro they will share the data with you.

    I think it is on an FTP site somewhere they mentioned, although I don’t have that information handy.

  53. It is about an assult on our environment with NO solution at hand.

    It is about no one trying to find a sustainable solutions to the problems of Peak Period Rush Hours. The rest of the hours take care of themselves and are not a problem.

    I think this is confusing two issues. It is not at all clear that “rest of the hours take care of themselves” in environmental terms. And given that every dollar collected in tolls will have to be spent on facilities that encourage people to drive more, it is likely that tolling under the current constitutional constraints will actually make things worse.

  54. Any effort like this would require the Federal Government and both States approval. It could and would be an innovative approach and probably would get new Federal grants to fund its startup.

    Again the way I see it is the revenue from TDM/Tolling would be split with 50% going to creating NEW ALTERNATIVES TO EXISTING roads and freeways creating new capacity and 50% to transit, PED and Bike modes and systems.

    With our current comprehensive plans we have a lot of industrial and work centers with little or NO transportation infrastructure. This is not smart and means we need new capacity with a balance of new arterials and transit. It may mean new dollars going to heavy freight rail that reduces our dependence on trucks on our highways.

  55. “Look at Tualatin – grown by several THOUSAND percent since 1970, and it has piss-poor transit ”
    Way to massively exaggerate.

    It is easy to show massive growth when you were very small to begin with. Tualatin is tiny by comparison to other cities.

    Tualatin as of the 2000 census had 22,000 people and the 2005 estimated population is 25,000. In the 1990 census Tualatin had 15,000 people. With an increase of 10,000 people since 1990 that is a 66% 15 year growth rate. Far from “several THOUSAND percent”. I couldn’t quickly find Tualatin’s 1970 population.

    Portland (proper):
    1990: 437,000
    2005: 533,000
    With a 96,000 person increase that is a 21% 15 year growth.

    Beaverton:
    1990: 53,000
    2005: 85,000
    With a 32,000 person increase that is a 60% 15 year growth.

    The smaller you start out the larger your growth will be.

    Lots of cities claim to be the “fastest growing city in Oregon” but it all depends on the criteria. It is easy to double in size from 100 to 200 people. But adding nearly 100,000 residents is pretty tough even for a city of 600,000 people.

  56. Louis Haywood Are 50 cars cleaner than one bus?
    JK: That is what the Union of Concenrned Scientists says:
    ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/big_rig_cleanup/rolling-smokestacks-cleaning-up-americas-trucks-and-buses.html

    Thanks
    JK

  57. Hi JK –

    You’ve linked to that Union of Concerned Scientists article before… Unfortunately, the graphs in the article only appear to feature total annual vehicle miles driven, not passenger miles. Do you have any links which adjust the UCS article for passenger-miles?

    – Bob R.

  58. Mr Halstead, look at the Yellow Line. Kaiser expanded, Providence put in a clinic, Fred Meyer remodelled, a big health food store went in, Kenton got an upgrade and an apartment complex, every empty and poorly used lot along Interstate is bound to develop.

    Out in Gresham, a huge shopping complex, a new city hall complex, apartment complexes all along the line between there and Gateway. Still, there are underused lots that will develop in time.

    On the Westside MAX, Downtown Hillsboro got its new city hall, fire and police complex, the hospital is expanding. The downtown businesses may not be thriving yet, but with all the new housing complexes at Orenco, Quatama, Willow Creek, Hawthorne Station, etc, downtowns Hillsboro and Beaverton are bound to eventually fill in their empty lots with commercial development and create many jobs.

    Are you saying that:

    1. Kaiser Permanente, which has one of its two major Portland area facilities on Interstate, would NOT have expanded had MAX not been built? (I believe the reason for the expansion was to consolidate Interstate and the former Bess Kaiser Hospital, which closed and is now the Adidas America corporate complex).

    2. Providence would not have located a clinic along Interstate? (Providence has added numerous clinics throughout the area, some with zero transit access – like in Sherwood and Newberg; another clinic on Scholls Ferry Road with only one bus route, etc.)

    3. Fred Meyer would not have rebuilt their store? (Fred Meyer has a corporate policy of updating/refreshing their stores on a regular basis. Interstate was coming up for it anyways. They are rebuilding the Peninsula store right now; and are planning to rebuild the Burlingame store – both with no MAX access.)

    4. “A big health food store…” (What about the TWO health food stores that built in Tualatin? With no MAX. (They did locate at Bridgeport Village.))

    5. Kenton got an upgrade and an apartment complex. (How many apartment complexes are NOT located near MAX?)

    6. In Gresham a new shopping center complex… (Tualatin has three new shopping centers; the Streets of Tanasbourne is located over a mile north of the MAX line and with no direct transit access; Washington Square had a major renovation a few years ago with no MAX access, and Clackamas Town Center’s renovations have nothing to do with MAX, it is to compete with the other malls; however it will have a MAX line built to it.)

    7. A new city hall complex. (Why is MAX required to build a new city hall?)

    8. …Underused lots… (Underused after 25 years? Clearly shows that MAX doesn’t entirely drive demand.)

    9. Downtown Hillsboro… (Again, did MAX have to cause that? The Washington County Service Center Complex (including the Justice Center/Jail) predated MAX construction; however MAX did build a new parking garage that is part county/part park-and-ride.)

    10. Downtown (Hillsboro) businesses not thriving (again proof that MAX doesn’t necessarily drive usage)

    11. ..all the new housing complexes.. (Many of which were partially developed before MAX; some were developed with property tax abatements to encourage growth along MAX, and some tracts are still vacant to this day – notably at Beaverton Creek, Elmonica, Quatama, and Fairgrounds/Airport).

    Of course MAX has been successful at revitalizing the Lloyd District, and Gresham has certainly benefitted from it (in downtown Gresham); downtown Portland has benefitted as well. Beaverton was a toss-up, because many of the projects got stalled during construction (namely the Round at Beaverton Central) and are just now taking off (10+ years after the start of construction). And let’s not forget Cascade Station, probably the largest “transit oriented development” failure, now giving way to acres of parking lots for yet another strip mall (which is what Orenco Station has largely become as well – centered around the intersection of Cornell and Cornelius Pass, not the MAX station.)

  59. It is easy to show massive growth when you were very small to begin with. Tualatin is tiny by comparison to other cities.

    Tualatin as of the 2000 census had 22,000 people and the 2005 estimated population is 25,000. In the 1990 census Tualatin had 15,000 people. With an increase of 10,000 people since 1990 that is a 66% 15 year growth rate. Far from “several THOUSAND percent”. I couldn’t quickly find Tualatin’s 1970 population.

    Tualatin’s population in 1970: 750 (www.tualatintomorrow.org)
    1980: 7,438 (city of Tualatin website)
    1990: 15,013 (U.S. Census Bureau)
    2000: 22.791 (U.S. Census Bureau)
    2005: 25,881 (U.S. Census Bureau)

    Percentage of increase from 1970 to 2005: 3400%.

    Doesn’t matter that Tualatin is a “small town” because EVERY town in Oregon is considered small compared to California, Texas, Illinois or New York (even Portland would be no more than a “suburb” in California).

    What matters is that Tualatin is experiencing extraordinary growth and that TriMet has done NOTHING despite TriMet having an obligation to serve its entire service district.

    So while Portland has plenty of transit options, Tualatin has I-5. Tualatin has its share of transportation related problems (that aren’t TriMet’s fault, such as having a poor road system) but until TriMet provides decent transit service so that people don’t have to take their cars, expect more cars.

    And don’t tell me that “well in 20-30 years we’ll think about building MAX”, because in 20-30 years we’ll need to widen I-5 to six lanes in each direction. We need a solution NOW, and that solution I have already covered multiple times but TriMet is too lazy or unmotivated to actually improve bus service – so TriMet’s solution to traffic is to force people to drive – and pollute.

  60. People COULD work in the rural areas (or Clark County where it’s cheaper to live) if more employers were comfortable with allowing their employees to telecommute!

    This is a major point of mine often among my clients Greg. I implore them to allow telecommuting as it provides MAJOR productivity improvements, lowered stress among employees/contractors, and drastically lowers costs to clients over the long haul (lower turnover).

    The other side of it is that employers are burned by the dumb !#@$%!$%@# that sit at home and don’t do anything, disappear, or other stupid action. Which fortunately is really rare, but it only takes one event for a company/manager to be forever turned off by the idea.

    I personally telecommute sometimes, but I’d rather walk downtown or ride the Streetcar to an office regularly to be able to get face to face. I however am one of those strange old school types that likes to do business and interact.

  61. Mr Halstead, your last commentary reveals only a bias against light rail as if there are no similarly analytical reasons for its support.

    [peronsally directed remark removed]

    Why would anyone not welcome a zero-emission public transport system that strengthens localism in these days of motorized mayhem? Nevermind.

  62. Doesn’t Tualatin have a commuter rail station coming soon?
    What has the City of Tualatin done to improve bike/ped and transit access to that facility?
    TriMet has to put resources where local communities step up to help make the ridership happen.
    New Seasons, for one, relocated on Interstate explicitly because of MAX. Indeed the MAX line was a factor in adidas conversion of the old Kaiser Hospital as well. Between MAX, New Seasons and adidas, homeowners in the Interstate Corridor probably added $50k to their equity.
    Losers, as usual, are renters and businesses that lease, but now question Interstate Avenue is a lot more attractive multimodal street than before.
    The only thing holding Interstate MAX back is its terminus at Expo Center instead of Jantzen Beach or better yet, Vancouver, but that will come.

  63. For those of you who seem to want to social-engineer Portland to make everybody drive cars, live in far-flung suburbs and in general never get face-to-face social contact with other people… there are plenty of places like that already. Why do you want to destroy the culture of Portland? People are moving to the Portland region precisely because it has adopted a pro-transit, pro-bicycling, pro-density ethos for growth, and because this has pressed more people closer together, those people have been able to collaborate — because they actually like other people — to create a wonderful regional culture.

    For the fellow who couldn’t do a quick Google search to discover the rate of growth in Clark County, here’s the link. It’s the Federal Guv’ment, which I might note is currently run by Republicans, not Multnomah County, City of Portland or the State of Oregon. (Though, the Year 2000 figure represents data collected when the U.S. House was Republican but the Senate and the Presidency were Democratic, if that matters):

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/53/53011.html

    Population, percent change, April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2005 Clark County: 17.0%State of WA: 6.7%

    Private nonfarm employment, percent change 2000-2004 Clark County: 4.5%State of WA: 0.1%

    Clearly, then, the population is growth a *lot* faster than employment, at a rate of almost 5 to 1.

    As for the real topic of this thread — Congestion Pricing — it’s probably a good idea, but the logistics are staggering. The San Francisco Bay Area is also looking into it, though they’re proposing a system of HOT lanes in combination with London-style congestion pricing for the central portion of downtown San Francisco. Given that, by any measure, the Bay Area is more congested than Portland, perhaps a wait-and-see approach might be appropriate?

  64. “This is not about just the I-5 corridor or Clark County commuters it is about a failing transportation system and planning … It is about no one trying to find a sustainable solutions to the problems of Peak Period Rush Hours … It is about the lack of will and leadership. It is about the lack of funding and special interests that push programs that bring little or not benefit and politics as usual. We need an actuarials looking at transportation solutions not politicians. We need solutions that bring benefits that are measurable in a balanced sustainable (good for business too) world.”

    Paul, I agree with the above repeated statements. However add tolls to roadways and the “politicians” will just do more of the same with the money collected: push programs that bring little or no measurable benefit that are not financially self-sustainable, coddle up to the special interests that continue demand and receive subsidies for supporting them, and proceed with a stacked deck citizen advisory process so these politicians can have a predetermined outcome. A person only needs to look at Metro’s transportation funding requests to the Fed to recognize how out of balance the current political mindset is. From my prospective, a far better route than charging tolls that would only increase business and motorist commuter expenses and thereby hurting the economy, would be to work to replace those ineffective elective officeholders that continue to waste motorist paid tax dollars on expensive alternatives that require continual operational subsidies and provide little true benefit to the movement of people and goods.

  65. Erik:

    Looks like Tualatin’s main growth spurt was 1970 to 1990.

    I stand corrected – but it shows my point. When you start at 750 it is easy to show 3000% growth. Do you think that Tualatin will experience 3000% growth in the NEXT 35 years?

  66. “Why do you want to destroy the culture of Portland?”

    What about the poor people who have lived here all their lives who don’t WANT this type of development? Should they be forced to move away because all the newcomers want to live in vertical cubicles?

  67. “What about the poor people who have lived here all their lives who don’t WANT this type of development? ”

    Ask the Native Americans.

  68. “Ask the Native Americans.”

    What do THEY have to do with this discussion? They came over from Asia and then couldn’t deal with the plagues that ensued several thousand years later.

  69. Tompkins Says: “Why do you want to destroy the culture of Portland?”

    What about the poor people who have lived here all their lives who don’t WANT this type of development? Should they be forced to move away because all the newcomers want to live in vertical cubicles?
    VR Replied Ask the Native Americans.
    Greg Tompkins Replied: What do THEY have to do with this discussion? They came over from Asia and then couldn’t deal with the plagues that ensued several thousand years later.
    JK:
    The elephant in the closet here is the poor. They are being driven out of Portland. By intent of the greed at the PDC and city hall.
    Why would caring people do this?
    Answer: they are not caring people – they pretend to be caring to get your vote. The real game being played is to make money. Developers make money building shitty condo farms all over town, partly with city money. Politician getting a part of the development subsidies back in campaign donations. Middle class makes money be moving into upcoming neighborhoods. The rise in values drives up rents which drives out the poorest. The rise in values increase property tax, Portland’s main income to allow bigger bureau budgets and new BS programs to look like the elected politicians are doing good things.

    The sad part is the poorest will soon have no place to go because the region is running out of low cost hosing because of Metro’s artificial shortage of land. You see, to Metro and Progressives, saving unused farmland is more important than people’s well being.

    Hey progressives, just answer this about your schemes:what about the poor. Ask this about your cures for global warming. Ask it about switching to renewable energy. Ask it about land use policies. Ask it about your transport schemes.

    The answer is that you really don’t care about the poor anymore than Sten does with his phoney $500,000 plan (which would pay the planner’s premium on about 4 houses). If you don’t know about the planner’s premium, see http://americandreamcoalition.org/penalty.html

    Thanks
    JK

  70. “You see, to Metro and Progressives, saving unused farmland is more important than people’s well being.”

    Well JK – If anything, it’s a REgressive and not PROgressive mentality. First off, it’s not THEIR farmland in the FIRST place but they like to think it is! I used to live out in the country and living in this ultracramped ghetto is really making me neurotic! I can’t wait until my lease is up and I can start driving my car again. Screw the vision problems – I’ll drive anyway! I’ll drive with the problems, I’ll probably be safer than riding Tri-Met or this dumb streetcar system! I am claustrophonic in my own place where I live – I can hear my neighbors all the time, smell them smoking, hear them doing the nasty. This is supposed to be livability? I call it prison and an insult. And these idiot regressive politicians actually have the gall to overturn a measure passed by the voters to curb this idiocy? People weren’t meant to be crammed into small pigeonholes for their entire existence! Spread them out a little better and give them a QUALITY life – not forced mandates reminiscent of Moscow, Russia!

  71. Looks like Tualatin’s main growth spurt was 1970 to 1990.

    I stand corrected – but it shows my point. When you start at 750 it is easy to show 3000% growth. Do you think that Tualatin will experience 3000% growth in the NEXT 35 years?

    No, because Tualatin is quickly becoming landlocked by other cities that are also growing – namely, Sherwood, Tigard, King City, Lake Oswego, and Wilsonville. Tualatin can only grow east towards Stafford Road, and will likely do so. Tualatin will also continue to grow south to meet with Wilsonville.

    But does that mean Tualatin’s availability of transit should be constrained? Or that we should embrace the fact that Tualatin is a significant economic driver both in terms of residences and employment, and that TriMet which has a legal obligation to do so, needs to grow transit availability now (something that probably wasn’t needed in 1971) before it’s too late?

    Having a commuter rail system is analogous to having a freeway interchange. It doesn’t matter if it’s not part of a total transportation system. Tualatin does have a roadway network, which makes the freeway interchange usable and effective. Tualatin does NOT have a transit network, which will limit the usefulness of the Commuter Rail station by itself. Without an investment in transit, Tualatin will become auto-dependent, will have higher than normal air quality concerns, and while Tualatin will share some blame for it, TriMet and Metro will bear a significant portion of the blame, for failing to meet their legal requirement to provide transit solutions.

    Tualatin voted to be a part of the TriMet District. Frankly I’m about to suggest at the Tualatin Tomorrow meeting that Tualatin should consider a lawsuit, or dropping from TriMet’s district and also demanding that TriMet and Metro make a financial contribution towards new equipment that should have been provided, but wasn’t.

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