Hat tip to the alert reader who caught this press release from the Doubletree Hotel, Lloyd Center.
As part of an overall effort to reduce carbon impacts, they have dumped their Airport Shuttle and are encouraging patrons to use Airport MAX.
Hat tip to the alert reader who caught this press release from the Doubletree Hotel, Lloyd Center.
As part of an overall effort to reduce carbon impacts, they have dumped their Airport Shuttle and are encouraging patrons to use Airport MAX.
29 responses to “One Less Van”
I took the train from Newark Airport to NYC’s Penn station yesterday…pretty slick, and only $7.50.
Negotiating subway turnstiles, however, even with simple carry-ons, was nearly impossible.
I bring that up because that’s the problem for Airport MAX. Sure, it’s got room for luggage, but then try transferring to the #14.
Doubletree –and other hotels within walking distance of Airport MAX– don’t necessarily have that problem, especially for business travelers. But for the large family, with multiple bags and kids in tow, I suspect this will drive them to the rental car counter, rather than MAX.
I agree with Chris although I think it will be a taxi rather than a rental car.
I will say however, that when I pick a friend up at PDX I almost always parkat the Parkrose Station and use airport MAX. It is just as fast and certainly cheaper than using any of the PDX parking facilities.
I suppose using a cell phone and assuming a close to on-time flight, I could pick them up by using the lower level.
I just like the MAX convenience.
I suspect that the large family will use rental vehicles anyway, regardless of shuttle vs. MAX.
But when my family travels, (we are not large – but do have multiple bags and kids in tow) we use transit almost exclusively if it is offered. We have done so in Seattle, New York City, Atlanta, Washington DC, San Francisco, and of course Portland.
I just prefer to not have to drive in unfamiliar cities. However many cities do not offer as good or pervasive transit, and we often drive. Such as Phoenix, LA, and Minneapolis.
But as a family I use MAX to the airport often, and as a business traveller it is a no-brainer. Very convenient.
We get a *big* convention center hotel, and you will see many more national conventions and events in the rose quarter / convention center area – and Airport MAX, and Fareless to downtown will be MAJOR sellers – very attractive to location shoppers.
should go over real big with the airline flight crews who stay at the Double tree…
should go over real big with the airline flight crews who stay at the Double tree…
The airlines have their own vans for transporting flight crews, or at least they did back when I was a valet…
Now that the DoubleTree Hotel, conveniently located near MAX, has decided to go one more step towards supporting MAX – when can we expect its two neighbors a few blocks to the west, that heavily promotes MAX, to eliminate its parking lot and demand 100% public transit usage by its employees?
Namely, I’m talking about TriMet’s Capital Planning Department, which even has a parking lot full of various fleet vehicles (including gas guzzling SUVs within eyesight of MAX), and Metro. Certainly those employees can take TriMet whereever they need to go; whereas an out-of-town guest may not be familiar with the system, or might still need a rental car to get around Portland.
Now that the DoubleTree Hotel, conveniently located near MAX, has decided to go one more step towards supporting MAX – when can we expect its two neighbors a few blocks to the west, that heavily promotes MAX, to eliminate its parking lot and demand 100% public transit usage by its employees?
Namely, I’m talking about TriMet’s Capital Planning Department, which even has a parking lot full of various fleet vehicles (including gas guzzling SUVs within eyesight of MAX), and Metro. Certainly those employees can take TriMet whereever they need to go; whereas an out-of-town guest may not be familiar with the system, or might still need a rental car to get around Portland.
The hotel also will save at least $50,000-$60,000 per year for each airport van it eliminates, probably a lot more depending on how often they run to and from PDX. Being apparently quite PR savvy, they emphasize what they did rather than the money savings.
Also, in principle I agree with Erik that they could do more, like a “parking cashout” program for employees, which would probably save a lot more than eliminating one or two airport shuttle vans. But Erik’s being extreme in “demanding” 100% public transit use (I suspect also allowing walking and bicycling) of hotel employees, if only because a fairly large percentage probably commute from across the Columbia from Clark County–where transit is relatively poor compared to the TriMet service area.
(I’m allowed to say something positive about TriMet, aren’t I? Such as TriMet does quite well in transit by U.S. standards (sic) but is still way behind the European transit standard and typical level of service, which is mainly a function of Portland being in the U.S., nothing else…)
I typically find public transportation to be more reliable and useful than these hotel shuttles (more specifically, the shuttles to hotels that are not v. close to the airport) because they run on a regular schedule.
Let’s give the hotel a little credit – I’m sure they did their research ahead of time to see what type of guests typically used their service and they probably found that #1 their service didn’t differ that much from MAX service, #2 their customers didn’t overwhelmingly need their shuttle, and #3 the costs outweighed the benefits of the service.
When I stated 100% transit use, I meant by TriMet and Metro employees, not by Doubletree.
I think Doubletree is setting a good example (and I would imagine that they do have a high percentage of employee transit users); it’s too bad that TriMet/Metro’s “Ivory Towers” employees still have a publicly financed fleet of private, single-occupant motor vehicles (and often SUVs) at their disposal, when there is little to zero need for them to even own the vehicles in the first place.
Given that Doubletree, a nearby Lloyd District neighbor is making the commitment, it’s time that TriMet and Metro make the same or even a better commitment, and that can start by selling off their vehicle fleets. Again – there is zero reason why any TriMet or Metro employee needs access to an SUV, particularly one that is paid for by taxpayers, and whose gasoline is paid for by taxpayers; and when they stated “Drive less Save More” let’s start with having government employees drive less, so that taxpayers can save more.
Yes, TriMet should get rid of unneccessarily large motor vehicles, but they will always need a fleet of road supervision, service, overhead line and other trucks and autos. Converting to hybrids where they can would help, and cashing out parking for office employees who don’t have to be at the bus yard at 5:00 a.m. Forcing bus drivers, road supervisors, dispatchers, etc. to take the bus to work when there isn’t any transit service running isn’t realistic.
Of course we could re-institute 24 hour/7 day per week service but I doubt many transit critics would want to pay for such lightly patronized service, particularly when they don’t seem too keen on funding heavily patronized transit such as LRT and streetcars.
I am sure that “forcing” 100% transit use violates some sort of Labor law, and also would not exactly work within union contract agreements either.
But they certainly could give many more incentives, or simply get rid of parking lot subsidies. When employees who get free passes on transit have to pay for parking – transit use goes way up.
When I worked at the Portland State Office Building, which is just East of Metro and just South of Tri-Met there in the Lloyd district – we got free tri-met passes, and they were HEAVILY used. I used mine extensively, for both work and other purposes. I rode MAX when I lived on the west side, and I rode busses when I moved into SE.
I don’t understand why EVERY government agency doesn’t push employee use of transit more… It seems a little hypocritical.
Erik,
I too was curious why TriMet needs the vehicles which are parked at the 7th Avenue station. I did a small amount of investigating.
The larger vehicles are used for the planners and engineers to reach construction sites and other areas for potential transit uses. This also explains the choice of vehicles. I would also like to point out that these are not Hummers we are talking about here. These are Jeep Cherokees and Ford Rangers… among the lighter classes. They are also transporting equipment and other tools. So, they are traveling to areas where transit is not readily available and they are transporting sensetive tax-payer bought equipment. To me the real question would be what would be the cost to taxpayers from the loss of this fleet of vehicles? Would they then use flexcar or some other rental agency?
The usage is monitored by an auditor who analyzes the justification for fleet vehicles. The On-street customer service division is based out of the same office and previously had a fleet of vehicles, justified by the fact that they carry revenue which is vulnerable on transit. Their usage however was below that which justified the vehicles so TriMet found that the most financially responsible method for the occaisional transportation of revenue was flexcar.
I do however agree with you that these empoloyees should be setting an example by taking transit to and from work. Especially provided that, at this particular office, the majority work business hours.
VR Says:
…
When I worked at the Portland State Office Building, which is just East of Metro and just South of Tri-Met there in the Lloyd district – we got free tri-met passes, and they were HEAVILY used. I used mine extensively, for both work and other purposes. I rode MAX when I lived on the west side, and I rode busses when I moved into SE.
Was the choice to have a transit pass OR the parking, or could you get both, like apparently in Washington (http://www.planetizen.com/node/24041), where Federal employess apparently can get BOTH the transit vouchers AND still park free?
Getting either transit OR parking–but NOT both–is how “parking cashout” can be successful as suggested by Dr. Donald Shoup (http://shoup.bol.ucla.edu/) and others.
I don’t understand why EVERY government agency doesn’t push employee use of transit more… It seems a little hypocritical.
Absolutely no disagreement here!
“But they certainly could give many more incentives, or simply get rid of parking lot subsidies. When employees who get free passes on transit have to pay for parking – transit use goes way up.”
Neither Metro or TriMet employees get free parking in the Lloyd District, and they get free transit passes, plus other commute incentives.
I’m not disputing the need for maintenance vehicles (i.e. MAX rail maintenance, bus tow trucks) that have to be a certain type of vehicle.
I am disputing that the planners, project managers, supervisors – they don’t need SUVs. There are very few worksites that TriMet requires off road vehicles; the majority of its system is located on or near paved streets.
And bus supervisors DO NOT NEED Ford F-250 trucks. Transit supervisors in Salem and Seattle drive sedans (in Seattle I’ve seen them drive minivans as well, which are a slight improvement.) But for the majority of TriMet’s white collar workforce, they can take the bus.
By the way, it’s not a labor law violation to force employees to take transit. Isn’t this what this forum often argues – that parking is this horrendous subsidy that is unfairly bourne by those who don’t own cars, that receives property tax breaks? So should TriMet and Metro set the standard, and tell its employees that it will not provide free parking (after all TriMet and Metro’s parking lots are property tax exempt, and I have to pay for maintaining them)?
And if it’s illegal, then someone better sue my employer. They don’t pay for my parking…
Frank Dufay Says:
Carry less! :p I know that’s not always an option… just being a smart a!@ :)
Erik Halstead Says:
Namely, I’m talking about TriMet’s Capital Planning Department, which even has a parking lot full of various fleet vehicles (including gas guzzling SUVs within eyesight of MAX), and Metro.
I’ve been wondering the same thing ever since I went and interviewed for the TPAC Citizens Position.
As I walked into the building and realized the parking takes up more space than the actual work building does I couldn’t help getting a sinking feeling of hypocrisy. The irony that these preachers weren’t following their preaching just left me about 80% bummed. After the interview, which was actually interesting and kind of fun with Rex and others, I went across the street to the Coffee People. After hearing that the chain was closing I was 100% bummed out. :(
The rest of that day was dealt with by a long video game session and a beer or three. Blagh, hypocisy and the loss of some good coffee is really just too much for a man to stomach in one day.
Summary: You hit that nail right on the head Erik.
As for the Union argument – whatever. Unions of all entities should support transit FAR MORE than SOV usage and such. It would be another of the millions of reasons to NOT use Union Labor if they didn’t support transit.
Michael:
No. We did not get free parking. The transit pass was done via the Lloyd TMA – the same way that any employer in the Lloyd district can do (and my spouse who once worked in the Liberty center building had done by her employer).
Erik:
Your company does not pay for your parking, but they do not FORCE you to ride transit. You can make your own choice.
I am fairly certain that trying to FORCE anyone to ride transit – especially a government agency – would violate labor laws in some way. It would be discrimination of a sort, and at a bare minimum would open you up for lawsuits.
Adron:
You do realize that the parking lot there is used by more than just Metro, right? It is not “Metro’s” parking lot. It is used by Metro, the Portland State Office Building (which I previously mentioned) and is a public parking garage to boot. The Lloyd district has some of the fewest parking spaces per 1000 square feet of office space in the entire region.
I know a few people who use that parking lot who work in other office buildings there in the Lloyd area because that parking lot is cheaper than some of the others (although a little farther walk to the office).
And I am not saying Unions support or don’t support Transit. I am simply saying that all non-management positions in the state are unionized. (Lets not debate the merits of unions here – just that the positions are union positions is all that is needed). I highly doubt that REQUIRING employees to use transit would go over very well in ANY labor negotiation.
I know a person who commutes from south of Salem to the Lloyd district every day in a large pickup truck. I think they are crazy, spending more in gasoline every month than I do for both of my vehicles payments combines.
But people have a right to work – just no responsibility to have common sense…
All:
Hey – I am saying the same things as most of you. The agencies with offices on or near great transit should highly encourage transit use. Tri-Met should not provide parking at ANY of its locations except for shifts who have to arrive or depart outside of operational hours. Tri-Met staff should use the most appropriate vehicle possible when they need to. And often, that is not a large pickup.
I just want people to know that it is not all bad out there.
:)
I am fairly certain that trying to FORCE anyone to ride transit – especially a government agency – would violate labor laws in some way. It would be discrimination of a sort, and at a bare minimum would open you up for lawsuits.
OK.
What law would it violate?
There are companies that can require you to have a personal vehicle for transportation. They don’t even have to pay you for it.
I am not stating that TriMet/Metro employees would absolutely, positively HAVE to use public transit; but if they CHOOSE to drive their car they must make arrangements to park on their own. Hmm, just like my work. My work leases space in a city owned building, and has a very limited number of spaces within the building for it. Those who have one of the spaces still have to pay for it; it is not provided by my employer. The parking facility is otherwise a public lot that anyone can park in.
So, you are correct, my company does not force me to take transit; but it doesn’t make it any easier for me to drive.
TriMet and Metro employees can be in the absolutely same boat as I am. They can take the bus (after all TriMet is a transit agency; and Metro wants us to “drive less save more”). Or they can drive if they really want to, but they can pay for their parking, and if that means walking seven blocks in the pouring down rain, so be it. (Don’t ask for any sympathy from me, I get to walk four blocks to my bus going home thanks to Mall construction, and I have an even longer walk to/from my bus stop at home. It’s called Oregon – it rains here, so get used to it or move.)
we got free tri-met passes
No, VR, you got transit passes paid for by other people. (Me, I get transit passes partially paid for by other people). There’s some real equity issues here.
And, Adron, I’m traveling very light this trip, carry-on only. Makes a world of difference, though getting luggage over the subway turnstiles is not for the weak, and squeezing out through the revolving cages is comical if not nearly impossible.
@Erik:
But that is what you said. You said:
And with regards to this:
That is EXACTLY how they do it now at TriMet, Metro, and the state offices at the Portland State Office Building, there in the lloyd district.
What is your problem with that? It is run just like your company…
Well, not really.
First – I pay taxes too, and so does my employer. Although I am not currently employed in the Lloyd district – but I was for several years, and so was my spouse. So I am just like the “other people” who are paying.
Second, you clearly have not worked with the Lloyd TMA to understand how their pass system works.
They do a survey of every employee, to find out how transit is used. Say the company (or agency) has 100 employees. 10 answer the survey saying they use transit. The entire company gets passes, but is only charged for the 10 active users. The next year the survey is done again. Say 20 people use transit now. Now the company pays for 20 passes, but every employee gets one.
So as transit use goes up, so does what the company pays into the system. In theory I guess each employee could lie and say they don’t use transit, but that doesn’t happen. So the passes are not paid for by taxpayers – but by the companies.
However there is incentive for the company to do so. Providing transit passes is SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper than providing or leasing parking. There are also state, local, and federal tax incentives to encourage transit use (along with carpooling, telecommuting and other transportation alternatives).
I have no idea. I am not a labor lawyer. But I bet there is one. Requiring your employees get to work in one specific way would surely discriminate against someone. You honestly – with today’s legal and social climates – don’t think that someone would win a case like that against a government agency?
Why all the hate and vitriol against public employees? They are regular people just like anyone else. They actually get paid much less than their equivalents in the private sector. They work hard doing thankless work.
They are not elected, they are just regular people with families and pets and mortgages like you and I.
They don’t make policy. They just do the work that the policy creates.
Since DoubleTree is right on the MAX line,
giving up their shuttle van(s) was a very
easy decision to make. So what the hack,
get some PR points with the establishment
in Portland and who knows, maybe PDC will
give DoubleTree a grant for something (i.e.
taxpayer dollars) for being “visionary”.
Bob Tiernan
My problem is that I have TriMet and Metro breathing down my neck telling me that I have to live in an expensive, uber-dense house, and that I shouldn’t drive my own car, and that I should embrace MAX as the end-all-be-all solution to mass transit.
Then I see TriMet and Metro employees driving to work (“do as I say, not as I do???”, and then I see TriMet’s parking lot full of gas-guzzling SUVs and other non-essential vehicles.
Meanwhile, a completely private concern (the Doubletree Hotel) decides to make a public (and good!) example of itself by eliminating it’s airport shuttle. Meanwhile, the PUBLIC TRANSIT AGENCY and the TRANPORTATION PLANNING AGENCY for the metro area still doesn’t trust its own mass-transit system for its own employees to use.
Hmmmmmmmmm… What’s wrong with this? Is it OK that TriMet wants me to ride its busses and MAX, but its employees choose not to?
Is it OK that Metro wants me to park at home and take the bus so that it doesn’t have to spend OUR transportation dollars on congestion relief – then it does nothing to help by providing parking for its employees (unlike my employer)?
I think there’s a lot of hypocrites out there, and I am hearing a lot of hot air and excuses as to why it can’t be done. I think TriMet and Metro should insist on 100% transit usage, because if they can’t do it themselves, then they would see that the metro area as a whole can’t do it either – and thus transportation planning projects should take that into consideration.
In other words less than 10% of total trips are taken using mass transit. The Doubletree is doing its part to increase that percentage. Is TriMet and Metro? Until the parking lots are sold/redeveloped, and its employees are told to do as they say, it’s part of the problem, not the solution.
No, I don’t have a hatred of public employees. I have a problem with government telling me to do one thing, and then it does another. Frankly, the Doubletree might do a better job at running our area’s transit agency.
No, VR, you got transit passes paid for by other people….Well, not really.”
Really, VR. The cost of a transit pass is all over the map, with many citizens paying full fare. Then, of course, our libertarian friends can weigh in with the reality that ALL transit is subsidized.
I’d rather see a model where ALL transit passes are “free” i.e. we accept and recognize that getting people ON transit is a vital, important priority, and thereforfe make it as affordable as possible for everyone. Free would be great.
I have to correct my earlier comment on this thread. The train ride between Newark Airport and Penn station is NOT $7.50. It’s $14. The first ticket I bought from a machine and did it wrong (and saved $13.50). Still not a bad deal, but less of a good one.
Erik Halstead: Then I see TriMet and Metro employees driving to work (“do as I say, not as I do???”, and then I see TriMet’s parking lot full of gas-guzzling SUVs and other non-essential vehicles.
Bob T: Free parking, too. When the Metro building was being designed, employees made it known that they wanted free parking because they were going to use their vehicles despite the fact that the Metro building is right next to a MAX station and numerous bus lines.
This highlights one of the downsides to mass transit — time. People talk about how time in congestion is bad, but never talk or want to talk about the time spent on mass transit waiting for transfers or waiting while the train/bus stops X-number of times for miles.
I use MAX if I’m going to the library or a location right next to the tracks or not too far from them, but if I have several places to go then forget it. I’m not going to sacrifice my time for someone’s dream, particularly when I can see Metro and Tri-Met employees driving past me while I look out the MAX windows.
Bob Tiernan
Bob T
I just checked with a Metro Councilor, and Metro employees are required to pay for their parking spaces (something on the order of $75/mo, but he wasn’t sure as he doesn’t drive).
Chris – if what you’re saying is true, then at least Metro is in the right step. Can there be some confirmation of that?
Chris Smith: I just checked with a Metro Councilor, and Metro employees are required to pay for their parking spaces (something on the order of $75/mo, but he wasn’t sure as he doesn’t drive).
Bob T: Thanks. But they still got a parking
structure for themselves. They didn’t want to
use transit (unless for a photo op).
Bob Tiernan