A nice piece in the Trib about efforts for the Streetcar Loop and Milwaukie Light Rail projects to partner, rather than compete, on raising funds.
After all, we’re going to share a bridge – it hardly pays to be shooting at each other :-)
A nice piece in the Trib about efforts for the Streetcar Loop and Milwaukie Light Rail projects to partner, rather than compete, on raising funds.
After all, we’re going to share a bridge – it hardly pays to be shooting at each other :-)
12 responses to “Making Friends”
At this last Tuesday’s HAND (Hosford-Abernethy Neighborhood Association) board meeting, we were expecting a brief presentation from one person on Milwaukie Light Rail. Instead we got three, includinga guy from Tri-Met and Councilor Robert Liberty. They talked up a storm about the Light Rail proposal, but nary a word about the East Side Loop Streetcar (or whatever we’re calling it these days). Not a word. Nor, even from the Tri-Met guy, a word about the problem of operating expenses.
This may be more a forced marriage of convenience than one born out of love.
Thanks for the update Frank.
Metro and TriMet will be presenting to those of us in Brooklyn on April 11th. Councilor Liberty already visited us about six weeks ago. He is especially interested in seeing that station area planning is done right. And he has a reason to be concerned, I have seen little evidence so far that much thought has gone into addressing either the existing zoning or the development potential along the proposed MAX line.
I suspect that your forced marriage analogy may very well be correct. However, I do think that both projects should be able to compliment one another rather well.
This may be more a forced marriage of convenience than one born out of love.
Where’s your sense of romance? :-)
A significant issue for Brooklyn, I would guess, is whether the stop at Holgate is enough to service that area. They seemed to be thinking about maybe an additional one at, if I remember right, Harold.
My sense of romance, Chris? Y’know…not only is my commute home now LONGER on the #14, as we’re routed over the Morrison, but they haven’t even given us bus shelters downtown at 2 out of 3 of our stops. (I’m waiting for them to rip out the sidewalks too, just for the heck of it.) Whenever I see a Tri-Met guy at a meeting I want to stick my foot out and trip them. If they complain I’d tell them “sorry, but you should’ve gone around the LONG way…”
Romance? Nah, bitter, dark thoughts… :-)
Actually, I’m w-a-y more enthusiastic about the light rail line to Milwaukie than the streetcar. So I guess I don’t want to see the blushing bride and anxious groom part company anytime soon. Even if it is a shotgun wedding.
Those of us on the Brooklyn Board are pretty enthusiastic about Milwaukie MAX as well. We have been worried about the Streetcar taking away resources for MAX, but we generally support the streetcar loop as well.
Brooklyn will actually be very well served by MAX. There are stations planned for both Rhine Street and Holgate. The station planned for SE 12th and Clinton will serve our business district well, even though it will be within HAND’s boundaries. Both this station and the line in general should improve connectivity between our two neighborhoods.
I’m sorry to hear about your bus shelter issues. We have been fighting for more bus shelters in Brooklyn for quite some time.
Don’t forget to read the 46 (!) so far comments. :)
These projects should be financially self sustainable. As an example, streetcar operations (that will have a negative impact to freight carriers and other motor vehicle travel on the Broadway Bridge, Grand Avenue and MLK) should funded by fares that reflect the costs of providing the service, and NOT subsidized with motorist parking revenues.
Just where is the developable land for high density housing along the proposed Milwaukie MAX line? Station location is a relatively minor issue compared to the underlying growth management rationale of LRT systems–to concentrate new, high density development along the route. In the Milwaukie MAX route I just don’t see it happening.
1. It has to cross the Willamette River–and at an angle yet! Not much infill housing there.
2. It cruises right past the Brooklyn Yards. Do you want to live above one of the noisiest yards in the Portland area? Our neighborhood association is already in a fight with UP regarding their night time switching.
3. Next it goes alongside Crystal Springs park, and then between Eastmoreland Golf course and Westmoreland Park.
4. South of Tacoma, on the east side it enters land that already has a development strategy, advanced by the City of Milwaukie. This is slated for mixed used–commerical, industrial, maybe some residential. But I don’t see anything on the scale of NW Portland, the CEID, Lloyd District, etc. It’s more like small town Oregon’s new wave of 21st century development. If this was going to be on the scale to warrant a huge investment in mass transit–or TOD– we would be seeing ten story buildings springing up in downtown Milwaukie–not rowhouses.
5. across Hwy 99 from Crystal Springs in Westmoreland Union Manor–a real eyesore, IMHO, but probably not slated for removal. To the north of that are single family homes.
That leaves a few areas in serious consideration for high density: Between OMSI and the Brooklyn yards–and–the west side of HWY 99, south of Marion St., now underused industrial land. One might also include some areas on bus routes that terminate at Milwaukie TC–but those would require transfers.
If there were a rail link between Clackamas TC and Milwaukie TC, it would make more sense. I understand that the Clackamas to Oregon City area is slated for dramatic growth. The I-205 MAX might become inadequate to handle that growth alone. So establishing some network that the South Metropolitan area will use is a positive step–I just don’t think the MAX fits, in this case.
Ron –
Have you looked at the plan for station locations. Light rail development happens around station areas. Obviously none are planned in the middle of the Willamette River. But max is not a streetcar that stops every block.
I don’t remember the exact station locations. But the stations in Brooklyn and at Clinton both have plenty of development opportunities within walking distance. So does the OMSI station – although its more commercial right now. Likewise the Holgate station has development opportunities within walking distance.
I don’t see anything on the scale of NW Portland, the CEID, Lloyd District, etc.
I don’t think NW and Lloyd center are the standards. But MAX serves the southern part of the CEID. And the development and existing transit user base near the stations along the route certainly compare to the Banfield stations, as well as those along Burnside.
And an eventual expansion down to Oregon City provides even more opportunities.
2. It cruises right past the Brooklyn Yards. Do you want to live above one of the noisiest yards in the Portland area? Our neighborhood association is already in a fight with UP regarding their night time switching.
Wow, this is interesting.
On one hand, the group wants a trolley line.
But they are trying to fight a railroad yard that was built in the early 1900s, was Portland’s first railroad yard, that is within an industrial area – the railroad yard reached its zenith in the 1940s and 1950s when it was home to a major locomotive shop.
Union Pacific is wanting to expand the intermodal operations at Brooklyn Yard, because there is more room compared to Albina Yard. Where does TriMet plan to obtain the land to build MAX – TriMet doesn’t have eminent domain over Union Pacific (railroads also have eminent domain rights).
Erik,
Milwaukie MAX is planned to run down SE 17th Avenue so that TRIMET will not have to fight the railroad over property.
Union Pacific would like to expand the Brooklyn Yards, but it is unlikely to ever happen. Just about every available square foot of land that they own is already in use. The site is constrained by several major streets and highways. Most of the surrounding properties are small lots with fractured ownership and/or owners with competing development plans. Many of these surrounding properties are on a slope and are not suited to use as a rail yard.
Please don’t confuse the issue of train noise with a desire for the rail yard to leave. I haven’t heard anyone who lives or works in Sellwood or Brooklyn call for the forced relocation of the yard. The railroad entered into a legal contract to limit the noise that they produce, and they now seem to be ignoring this past agreement. Another sticking point is that the use of robotic locamotives is leading to the excessive sounding of warning whistles.
Most of us that live in this area actually enjoy having the trains near by. The yards are an integral and historic part of what makes this area unique.
The railroad entered into a legal contract to limit the noise that they produce, and they now seem to be ignoring this past agreement. Another sticking point is that the use of robotic locamotives is leading to the excessive sounding of warning whistles.
Except that there is no such thing as a “legal contract to limit the noise”, nor is there any legal capability to restrict or limit the use of remote control locomotives.