Sam Adams has decided that transit passes will indeed be honored on the Tram so that regular commuters don’t get soaked with the $4 single-ticket price. As reader Frank Dufay notes, I’m sitting pretty because Sam has included Streetcar Annual Passes on the list of honored fare instruments:
So now, Chris, your $100.00 a year Streetcar pass ALSO gets you on the Tram. Sweet.
Too bad, for me, ONE round trip ticket weighs in at $1.70 (bus & stretcar); $4.00 (tram); $1.70 (bus and streetcar)…or $7.40 for ONE visit up Pill Hill.
Discrimination raised to a whole new level.
And while MY employer pays the Tri-Met payroll tax OHSU’s docs don’t, for further public subsidy.
How crazy are we going to let this get?
For the record, I think the docs group organizing as a non-profit to avoid property tax and transit taxes is indeed a horrible evasion, and I’m open to having the payroll tax exclusion list reconsidered.
But I don’t know why that justifies soaking commuters.
Frank, if you’re going to OHSU as a patient, your ride is free anyway. So were you planning on sightseeing?
21 responses to “Get Your Streetcar Passes Now”
I find all of the tram angst somewhat of a puzzle. On Sam’s blog some of the strongest voices against building the tram have been the loudest voices for lower/fairer pricing. As you note Chris, you don’t pay a fare if you are going to the hospital for medical reasons. Do we all think that streetcar riders (and Tri Met pass holders for that matter) are going to be riding the tram that often for entertainment? I mean, it’s Pill Hill not Space Mountain. Whether $4.00 or free with my pass, I’m not likely to ride more than once or twice a year…or am I missing something?
I think overall the Tram is a good idea, but you have to charge a flat price across any system, and the Tram shouldn’t be excluded. If no other agreement can be reached at this point, since it’s already built, how about a monthly pass at a discount or a discount for TriMet passes at least?
I’ll take it once, to see it, and hopefully won’t need to take it again since I don’t live or work near there. I still think it should be offered to the public as a reasonable transit option.
(Er, I meant TriMet transfers.)
What happened to simplicity? What happened to fairness?
If OHSU visitors “on business” are given free transportation, then shouldn’t I get a free pass on TriMet to downtown Portland “on business”?
Here’s a solution: It isn’t part of TriMet. Period. TriMet doesn’t own it, operate it, etc. TriMet is ONE transit agency, which sets its own fares. Maybe we should go to the model of the Puget Sound region, and have a “regional transit card” that is interchangable, but acts as a stored value card that simply deducts the value of each ride? It could also be used for highway toll booths, parking lots (downtown, PDX, Oregon Zoo), all of the areas’ bus systems (TriMet, C-Tran, SMART, CAT, SCRTD, Cherriots), Streetcar and MAX. It could even be used for taxis.
If you don’t have it, you pay cash fare for each boarding, and there are no more transfers – or transfers would be very limited (i.e. at transit centers only). With such, we could also implement different fare schedules for weekday rush-hour, non-rush hour, and weekend transit, and different fares for different busses (i.e. an express bus would cost more than a local bus).
And EVERYONE would pay to ride the tram. No free ride for doctors that earn some $150,000 a year and can afford the $1000 annual fare to ride the tram round trip each day.
If no other agreement can be reached at this point, since it’s already built, how about a monthly pass at a discount or a discount for TriMet passes at least?
In fact, Sam has recommended a $100 annual Tram pass (which will also be honored on the Streetcar). So the Streetcar and Tram passes will be essentially interchangable.
See http://commissionersam.com/node/2051
“If OHSU visitors “on business” are given free transportation, then shouldn’t I get a free pass on TriMet to downtown Portland “on business”?”
Only if you need an appendectomy ;)
The city receives nothing financially from Tri-Met and streetcar pass holders to offset their percentage of yearly taxpayer funded tram operations. Charging all members of the public a $4.00 or $5.00 fare for a round trip, no matter how they got to the tram, is the most equitable way of recouping the City’s portion of the operational costs. Basing fares on what transportation mode a person uses to arrive at the tram or how that choice is paid for is blatant discrimination. If TriMet passes and/or streetcar passes are good for taxpayer subsidized free rides on the tram, then an extra “tram zone” charge of no less than $10.00 monthly should apply to both types of passes. This money would go directly to the City so City taxpayers get a financial return for all members of the public riding the tram. It also must be pointed out City council members are the public servants for all taxpayers, not just those people with transit passes, those who ride transit regularly using tickets or cash, and the bicyclists that continually lobby for more subsidies. Therefore, parking receipts from downtown parking meters (where a portion of the money is expended to subsidize streetcar operations) should also be good for a free ride on the tram.
Bright Erik, why don’t you just slam on the doctors that make 150k. That’s pretty low.
“And EVERYONE would pay to ride the tram. No free ride for doctors that earn some $150,000 a year and can afford the $1000 annual fare to ride the tram round trip each day.”
They also probably pay a higher bracket (oh yeah, remember that 29% bracket), plus they get hit with the 6.5% SS, then 1.8% unemployment, then they get hit with the 9.5% Oregon, then they have to pay their licensing fees, then they have to pay membership and other costs associated with practicing, totally about another 3%. So that is 29% + 6.5% + 1.8% + 9.5% + 3% = 49.8% of their income.
Yeah, for one of the most important professions to creating a high standard of living America sure treats its doctors great. If ya do the math that leaves them with about 75k to deal with a “doctor’s life” which is not a simple thing to do. It leaves them 75k a year to probably pay about 150-400k of school debt. It leaves them with barely a reward for picking such a rigorous and important profession.
So how about we quit screwing with the important people. Why don’t you pick on the McDonald’s worker instead. Who effectively has 2-10% of their income returned to them via the wealth redistribution that our tax system attempts to act as.
This attitude didn’t make America the richest country in the world, but it’s gauranteed to screw us over eventually.
I know this is off topic, but slamming those that make more money than x isn’t going to help anything.
…and just to note.
Public Transit isn’t about fairness, no one should be so confused as that. It’s if nothing more, another mechanism of social control and wealth redistribution by funciton, and a feel good notion to do gooders. I’m under no such delusions to see it as anything different. I’d be more than happy to pay that $4.00 bucks to ride the tram once, and knotch that one on the belt of “been there, done that”. I’ll also have the peace of mind that I didn’t “re-appropriate” someone elses money for operations against their will.
Why a two-tier pricing structure?
Why when I can travel from the Pearl district, on the streetcar, to the tram and up the hill, for $100 per year, should a close-in, one-zone bus pass, and a much shorter ride, costs folks $756.00, when purchased on a monthly basis. A two-zone annual pass weighs in at $814.00. Why should the bus cost eight times more?
Why “special passes” for the Streetcar and Tram? Based on relative cost of operations, they should be charging, if anything, MORE. Why this absurd subsidy, piled on top of subsidy?
Earlier, on Sam’s Blog, I suggested OHSU buy Tri-Met passes for it’s employees. What’s the point of “special” passes that aren’t good on the “seamless” transit system, and which WON’T encourage OHSU employee to use mass transit beyond the use of the tram and streetcar?
Why should Pill Hill neighborhood commuters who use a combination of tram and BUS to get to work pay so much more than folks who use tram and streetcar?
Where is the logic and fairness?
Hawthorne asks: Whether $4.00 or free with my pass, I’m not likely to ride more than once or twice a year…or am I missing something?
Yeah, you are. Some of our lowest-income patients go to OHSU and the VA Hospital. While their fares may be “free”…what about spouses and children who are visiting? If I accompany my wife to OHSU for a test…she rides free but, me, who doesn’t have a transit pass, pays $7.40? Oh, wait she doesn’t ride free…she still pays the $3.40 for her round fare BUS ticket, but her tram ride is free…while mine isn’t. Unless we both lived in the Pearl, so my streetcar ticket is good for ALL DAY…unless I take a BUS from the Pearl, so my one way fare is good for 2 hours only.
Yeah…great system. Seamless. Not at all confusing.
And if everyone’s thinking well what WOULD you be going up Pill Hill for if NOT to see a doctor…then what’s the basis for locking in a 15% share for non-OHSU riders, paid for by the city, for five years?
I’m disappointed in this outcome. I think it’s great that Tri-Met pass holders get to ride the tram for free, but single-ticket Tri-Met riders –who already pay the highest fare per ride– should be able to use their transfer to ride the tram up the hill.
And why we now have further institutionalized a two-tier pricing structure…cheap passes for the tram and streetcar, eight times that for the bus, is beyond me.
Frank,
Granted, a seamless system would be ideal. We don’t live in that world, though. To be honest, it seems like you are making this much more complicated than it is.
“Some of our lowest-income patients go to OHSU and the VA Hospital. While their fares may be “free”…what about spouses and children who are visiting? If I accompany my wife to OHSU for a test…she rides free but, me, who doesn’t have a transit pass, pays $7.40? Oh, wait she doesn’t ride free…she still pays the $3.40 for her round fare BUS ticket, but her tram ride is free…while mine isn’t.”
First, there is not evidence to suggest that a family member joining a patient will need to pay a fare. They are going on official business at OHSU. Is this not the case?
Second, if I am a low income transit rider the chances are that I have a transit pass. Argue all you want about how much steetcar vs. bus passes should cost- in terms of my ride on the tram the added cost to the rider is the same: $0. So, if I am going to OHSU by tram on official business I don’t pay. If I am taking public transport to take the tram and I have a pass, I don’t pay any additional amount. That’s pretty straight forward.
If I’m a tourist or using the tram for other reasons and don’t have a transit/tram/streetcar pass I pay. The only people who seem “penalized” under this system are non transit pass holders. Why get so bent out of joint about that? If anything, they now have an additional incentive to get a pass. What’s the big deal?
The rationale for the $100 Streetcar pass (it actually started at $50, and I have consistently advocated for increases, the most recent of which was from $75 to $100 this year) is that much of alignment is inside fareless square. The $814 TriMet pass will take you a LOT more places that the Streetcar pass will.
Similar logic applies to the Tram. It’s a pretty localized use.
The pricing discrimination going on here is a pretty clear attempt to separate sightseers from actual transit users. Of course it’s not perfect, there may be a few people who have a legitimate transit use for a single trip up the hill, but overall I think it’s going to pretty effective in separating the entertainment value from the mobility value.
The pricing discrimination going on here is a pretty clear attempt to separate sightseers from actual transit users.
Chris –
I don’t see how letting sightseers who have streetcar or Trimet passes, but not those with transfers, use the tram for free has that effect at all. In fact, to the contrary. There are probably people whose employers provide annual Trimet passes who may never make use of that benefit except to go for a joy ride on the tram.
Ross, I admitted it was imperfect – most pricing schemes that try to target subgroups are. But I still think it’s better than charging a daily commuter from the Homestead neighborhood who wants to get to work downtown by Tram/Streetcar $8 per day for the Tram link.
You’re right that many pass holders will get a free sightseeing ride (including me), but I think that’s a lesser sin than soaking regular commuters or giving away the sightseeing value to tourists for $1.70 (subsidized by our taxes).
First, there is not evidence to suggest that a family member joining a patient will need to pay a fare. They are going on official business at OHSU. Is this not the case?
I have no idea how the tram staff will determine who is on “official” business and who isn’t. If I “say” I have an appointment with a doc, is that sufficient? How about a drug pusher aka “pharmaceutical rep” meeting with an administrator?
What if I’m having lunch up there with my girlfriend who’s a lab tech? (And, NO, I DON’T have a girlfriend up there, Anne…)
It seems to put quite an onus on fare collectors to determine who pays and who doesn’t. Is it really WORTH the cost and expense to collect a percentage of 15% of fares?
And, again, the seamless part of this is to ENCOURAGE the use of transit. Why couldn’t OHSU simply buy Tri-Met passes instead of creating this hybrid? Why is OHSU even IN the transit business? If they want their own system, with their own rules…that’s fine by me, but let THEM pay for it then. 100%. Then they can charge, or not charge, who and what they want.
Second, if I am a low income transit rider the chances are that I have a transit pass.
FISH enmergency services is on my Hawthorne route at SE 13th, so we get people coming and going with their shopping carts. I see an awful lot of these folks putting their cash into the fare box.
My 15-year-old step son is certainly “personally” low-income, but I’m constantly shelling out change and passes to him and his friends for them to get around.
I suspect this is going to start approximating the revenue stream brought in by the streetcar, with few paying passengers. And I think it would have been a heck of a lot smarter for OHSU to simply offer the thing up for free rides, especially after the PR debacle this has already been. They should be pretty flush with cash now that they’ve sold one of their South Waterfront lots for $8 million to a bio-engineering lab…I mean, retirement home.
But I still think it’s better than charging a daily commuter from the Homestead neighborhood who wants to get to work downtown by Tram/Streetcar $8 per day for the Tram link.
I suppose one way to look at the streetcar issue is that you can buy an annual tram pass and it will get you on the streetcar. Neither are part of the Trimet system and it is a cheaper alternative to an annual Trimet pass for people who rarely travel outside downtown.
think that’s a lesser sin than soaking regular commuters
I think some regular commuters are getting soaked, the ones who pay the fare themselves out of their own pocket. The obvious solution is to let Trimet users who want to use the tram for their regular commute buy an annual tram/streetcar pass.
For the record, I think the docs group organizing as a non-profit to avoid property tax and transit taxes is indeed a horrible evasion, and I’m open to having the payroll tax exclusion list reconsidered.
Let’s have this happen. I think the exclusions are ridiculous and completely political. Farm laborers are excluded? Based on what? They don’t use mass transit?
REAL “non-profits” can be segregated out from the shadowy “OHSU Medical Group” tax-avoidin’ non-profits by setting a threshold at which salaries would be Tri-Met taxed, say $50,000 or so.
We need to find some state legislators willing to carry the ball on this (and even as I’m writing that I’m thinking: FAT CHANCE!) But maybe…
Tri-Met DOES need the operating revenues, right?
Farm laborers are excluded? Based on what? They don’t use mass transit?
I think that would be correct. I doubt there are very many farms within the Trimet service area that get much transit service and I think you can make the case that a farmer whose office happens to be within the Trimet service area shouldn’t have to pay taxes on employees who are working in the fields.
As for non-profit, tax exempt, organizations, they don’t pay for police and fire protection either. I think, given the public investment in the Tram, everyone at OHSU ought to be part of Trimet’s universal pass system. In fact, any non-profit over a certain number of employees ought to be required to participate.
“They also probably pay a higher bracket … then they have to pay their licensing fees, then they have to pay membership and other costs associated with practicing, totally about another 3%. So that is 29% + 6.5% + 1.8% + 9.5% + 3% = 49.8% of their income.”
hey adron, that’s bad math. the 29% tax rate is just on the portion of their income above $75k.
now, i have nothing against doctors, but if you are going to complain about what the nanny state taketh, you should acknowledge what it giveth. since you are factoring in licensing fees as a cost, you should probably factor in salary inflation based on the AMA’s highly successful lobbying to reduce number of immigrant doctors/residents from entering the country on a work visa by 50%. then you should probably factor in salary inflation based on the AMA’s highly successful lobbying to restrict the number of new accredited medical schools. the next angle would be to scrutinize the percentage of those loans which you mention that were federally insured and subsidized. then you would want to look at practices within the AMA and licensing boards to ensure that the more expensive procedure is the preferred option.
i could go on, but one final note. doctors in the US make $180k on average, doctors in europe, where the licensing/immigration laws are more liberal make $80k on average. your (faulty) math came up with 49.8% of their income paid in taxes/fees/loan payments, my numbers show 116% income inflation based on supply control. i wouldn’t be whining for the doctors. i know this does not fit into your randian worldview where the government taxes the productive to assist the ineffectual and weak, but it’s closer to the truth.
I believe all OHSU employees are on TriMet’s Universal Pass (formerly PassPort) program.
Once the City has paid parking in SoWa why not extend fareless “square” to include that area plus the Tram, making Streetcar and the Tram free. I recall that there was an understanding that had NWDA embraced paid parking, Streetcar, if not TriMet, would have been operated without any fares up to NW 23rd.
In the meantime,the idea is not to make money, but to reduce motor vehicle trips. But somewhere lurks the uneasy feeling that if the Tram is free it will be overwhelmed with fun riders and OHSU will loose the capacity it needs. Remember, you can add another Streetcar to the line, but you can’t add another Tram car. In the end, I guess its easier to lower or remove fares once everyone settles down,than to impose them later if you miscalculate the Tram’s popularity.
$4 round trip is a steal. All other aerial trams save Roosevelt Island Tram are at least $20 round trip. And the Roosevelt Island tram costs $4 round trip too. Its $2 each way, only a few cents more than a TriMet ticket.
The tram haters just need something to bitch about since the tram is opening to rave reviews from riders and with good publicity. What will they bitch about next? Will they complain about the tram being too fast to take in the view of the downtown skyline?
I believe all OHSU employees are on TriMet’s Universal Pass (formerly PassPort) program.
The question is whether that applies to the doctors who are employed by their own non-profit, not OHSU. If they are then they need no special privilege to ride the tram. Essentially thre tram is just another transit provider for them where they can use their transit pass.
$4 round trip is a steal.
Maybe for a carnival ride, but not a transit trip. My point was that someone with a bus transfer ought to be able to ride the tram for free up and down the hill if folks on annual passes can.