Dilapidated?


That’s what Friday’s Trib called Union Station.

Apparently our “Go By Train” landmark is in need of $40-50M of work.

PDC owns the station, and apparently there is some discussion of getting it into an urban renewal district when the downtown districts are reconfigured in a few years. The assumed eventual replacement of the Post Office next door could be the catalyst to make something happen. It’s not mentioned in the article, but I’ve also heard murmurs that the Public Market effort, having failed to secure the space in the Skidmore Fountain area (because the Fire Station relocation got called off), may be looking at Union Station.


28 responses to “Dilapidated?”

  1. Portland needs a station in the site, with 6 major amtrak trains running daily,[more to come soon] could be modernized though…

  2. Speaking of the post office….

    What’s the current plan for that location? Last I heard the postal service didn’t want to move. However, that land is a crucial addition to Portland central city. Its like 9 or 12 blocks!

    Maybe it makes sense to save some land for an eventual high capacity regional rail station expansion.

  3. There are two big opportunity areas left in the Pearl, the area north of Northrup, which Hoyt Street properties is working on, and the Post Office site.

    No question the Post Office could be catalytic. I haven’t heard anything concrete, but I did see in the reports from the City of Portland’s new lobbyist registration system that the Port of Portland (the Post Office will presumably relocate to the airport) met with one of the Commissioners last quarter on the topic of relocating the Post Office.

  4. relocating the post office? there’s a huge amount of postal and user traffic to and from the place every day — a relocation would be a huge snafu. and why? to get more lofts in the pearl district? to whom is that “crucial”, besides property developers?

    If the post office doesn’t need all their land, they can let some go. But it’s a huge transfer and sorting station for Oregon’s mail. It’s right downtown next to a major bridge and convenient to I-405 — moving it to someplace less central could immediately create hundreds of day-miles of additional foot, bicycle, car and postal truck traffic. (The volume of U.S. Mail has neither declined or become less important just because of this here new-fangled interweb thingie …)

    My postal worker friend says that a lot of that 9 or 12 blocks houses giant sorting machines that churn all day and night, making sure we all get our mail. There’s also parking for the many postal trucks, and some amount of postal warehouse space that is perhaps less important to daily operations. Perhaps the existing footprint could shrink, freeing up a block or two to appease the angry condo gods … but again I ask, who does that benefit besides property developers?

    (BTW, my postman pal, who currently bicycles to work at that location, cringes at the thought of relocation to some suburb.)

  5. One may rest assured that there will still be a major US Post Office presence in the area, but there is no real reason to keep the main hub there. It made sense when the rail roads provided for most intercity mail movement, but now that’s by air, if I’m not mistaken.
    I would love to have a major league ball park at that location…now, don’t all jump on me at once!
    Easy to get to by rail, MAX and Streetcar.

  6. This is a perfect opportunity to get things done that would be smart.

    #1. Move the passenger rail station to the other side of the river, stick it right on the soon to be Streetcar loop. The location it is currently in is horrible from a logistics persepective and causes more than its fair share of passenger & freight delays that could be alleviated by simply putting the passenger station where it SHOULD be in the first place. The area would be far better utilized for commercial or residential real estate development from a market, environmental, and logistics perspective.

    #2. The post office needs to be where it is, but the logistics aspect (all those trucks) definately need MOVED, probably to the other side of the river also, or better yet, get it moved outside of the immediate downtown area. It really isn’t so valuable to keep where it is – but that’s not really the debate question.

    #3. Cut the costs of the downtown light rail by removing the link up with the train station (it should be on the other side of the river), yeah yeah yeah there is emotional attachment. Emotional attachment isn’t work the 40-50 million of renovation it needs and countless time delays and congestion issues it causes. It’s definately not work the land its sitting on anymore. The downtown light rail could still scrape by the ole’ nasty Greyhound Station without much cost, but it should cut off at least a few million and a few valuable seconds by averting the train station.

    #4 Seriously, it would be very cool, and more attractive to have the Streetcar running by the train station than a big bloated MAX Train.

    #5 It positions the area heavy rail system better for future upgrade to high speed rail (the real stuff, not the wanna be high speed rail like Acela). We need a good straight shot in and out of Portland. Imagine the 5-10 minutes it will save.

    #6 Also with the move it would be easier to setup DMUs to swing in and out of the station (something that just is not reasonable at the current location) for local Commuter Rail Service if Portland/Metro/Trimet/Amtrak/Somebody ever gets the Clark County/Washington County and other outlying areas hooked up properly. It could be a boon in this case.

    …but in the end, I’m not up for fighting for this logical set of events to occur. The millions and millions could be thrown into the station and the light rail and all that and it will still eventually, logically, even more so after east side development kicks off, need moved to the other side of the river.

  7. Ok, I did it again. I’m awesome at hitting that post button during the course of writing a comment!

    Anyway… my closing sentance is, “I hope someone is up for the battle to straighten all this out in my lifetime, it would be nice to see it done properly.”

  8. I wonder why anyone thinks there will be HSR to an eastside station in our life times when we can’t even get a morning train to Salem/Eugene?
    Historic Union Station will be renovated with URA money once boundaries are adjusted as it should be and will continue to serve intercity rail for a long time. Sorry.

  9. It’s important to separate the customer service function of the post office (which needs to remain in the central city) from the sorting/distribution function. I’ve heard that the postal service would prefer that the latter be at the airport.

  10. First, even though placing Max on the transit mall will totally screw all other access to Union Station, the station should continue to be used as Portland’s connection to passenger train service. The building is a magnificent historical and architecturally designed landmark structure that is over 100 years old. It was remodeled in the 1930’s and renovated by PDC in as the article stated in the 1980s. The Go By Train sign was installed on the tower some time after World War II only to go dark after Amtrak took over passenger service from the railroads. The sign was eventually restored through private contributions with then Mayor Bud Clark presiding over the re-lighting ceremonies. Once a week somebody must climb the stairs inside the tower to wind the clock During an early Willamette River flood, a Salmon was actually caught inside the station.

    Having been personally been involved acting as a liaison to PDC during the 1980’s renovation, as a participant in helping to raise money to restore and relight the signs, and as an individual that helped repaint and also stop the removal of the second of the two remaining train sheds at the station, any consideration of a new station or another location is totally unacceptable. This beautiful building is one of very few left of its size that has virtually gone unaltered from its original appearance, and is still being used for train service. .The inside of King Street Station in Seattle has been cannibalized. Portions of LA Union Station also have been redone. Portland’s Union Station is unique. Using it for anything but a passenger station would be a disgrace.

    As far as I am concerned, Portland Saturday Market should also stay right where it is, under the Burnside Bridge and next to Max station. If they must move, why not give them a park block or two.

    As for the post office, it too should stay right where it is, centrally located. The post office has a large number of employees. It should not be shunted off to some remote location near the airport. Such a move will only increase miles driven. Max alone will not support the demand or need.

    Personally, I am extremely tired of Portland planners looking and eyeing every piece of un-built up and open space property for redevelopment such as in Hollywood and the land grab at 12th and Sandy. I am also tired of planning efforts that attempt to relocate everything they think is in the wrong place including the Central Fire Station. If anything is in the wrong place it is putting Max on the Mall.

    I think today’s O tells the story, even with a left wing liberals running and planning things, it is the rich who receive the financial benefit.

  11. A couple of clarifications:

    – It’s the Public Market (new effort for produce market), not the Saturday Market, that may be looking at the station.

    – I don’t think the Public Market effort is meant to supplant use as a rail station, but rather to co-exist with it.

  12. Hasn’t anyone learned? Nearly anytime there is a government contract rumored, the vultures gather. Our poor hapless government officials!
    Cornered by the thuggish, intimidating contractors and the construction lobby! “You say quality work will cost twice as much. Of, course, sir..yessir! Just take care of it…I’m afraid!”

    But without throwing the taxpayers hard earned money around, how would they get votes from the labor unions and the spectrum of chic businesspeople who patronize them?

    So the roof of Union Station springs a leak? Did they consider calling back the contractor who performed the work (not too long ago, as memory serves me) and demand that he fix it? Or did they not think to get a warranty? At least it might be good PR for the contractor. But, no, we should spend $40-50 million.

  13. A “I don’t think the Public Market effort is meant to supplant use as a rail station, but rather to co-exist with it.”

    B Either way, I don’t see it fitting into the station

  14. From Lenny Anderson’s post:

    One may rest assured that there will still be a major US Post Office presence in the area, but there is no real reason to keep the main hub there. It made sense when the rail roads provided for most intercity mail movement, but now that’s by air, if I’m not mistaken.

    Actually the current Post Office dates back to only the 1960s, when most railway postal operations had largely ceased.

    The Post Office was built on the ground formerly occupied by the Northern Pacific and Southern Pacific’s freight warehouses. The former Spokane, Portland & Seattle freight warehouses remained in existance until the mid-1990s, when they were torn down (except for two small portions of the buildings straddling 10th Avenue, which was incorporated into a condo project).

    The Post Office was not specifically sited there because it was close to the railroads; nor were any facilities ever constructed to allow transloading of mail from the Post Office into or out of railroad cars.

  15. From Adron’s post:

    #5 It positions the area heavy rail system better for future upgrade to high speed rail (the real stuff, not the wanna be high speed rail like Acela). We need a good straight shot in and out of Portland. Imagine the 5-10 minutes it will save.

    The “straight shot” is I-5 north and McLoughlin Blvd. south (interstingly, the old U.S. 99 route.) Put HSR there, and we’ll need a new Interstate corridor.

    #6 Also with the move it would be easier to setup DMUs to swing in and out of the station (something that just is not reasonable at the current location) for local Commuter Rail Service if Portland/Metro/Trimet/Amtrak/Somebody ever gets the Clark County/Washington County and other outlying areas hooked up properly. It could be a boon in this case.

    Commuter Rail from Union Station to Washington County is basically not a realistic proposition.

    In the 1910s/20s/30s there were two railroad routes south from Union Station (ex-Red Electric and Oregon Electric) that traversed the West Hills at Hillsdale (Red Electric) or Multnomah Village/Garden Home (Oregon Electric) to Beaverton and beyond. TriMet decided that the several-hundred-million-dollar tunnel was a better solution; and those other routes are now fully developed (and in many cases streets or parkland). The current possible route would be Union Station-Milwaukie-Lake Oswego-Tualatin-Tigard-Beaverton, or Union Station-Linnton-Cornelius Pass-North Plains-Banks-Hillsboro-Beaverton. Both very roundabout.

    I keep saying that Portland-Salem commuter rail is something that is needed, and would logically terminate at Union Station…

  16. Wasn’t the old federal building at Broadway & Glisan at one time the post office? In any event, freeway and airport access both are better out near I-205 than at Hoyt and Broadway, where I hope we will be able to enjoy major league baseball someday…folks will ride in from all over on commuter rail, lightrail and Streetcar. Go Bevos! Nothing brings a region together better than a national championship…remember 1977?

  17. It would make all kinds of sense to move the main transfer and sorting functions of the post office to the airport. The customer service functions should be right at home in the old federal building at Broadway and Glisan, particularly since it’s now sitting empty.

    This would empty a 12 acre parcel that could indeed make a not-bad stadium site. If a baseball stadium wound up on the post office site, it could have a basement level with a couple of light rail platforms and track for multiple light rail trains, allowing riders to board MAX straight from the stadium after the game, and providing augmented MAX service for the next hour or so.

    If it was otherwise developed, though, I’d want to see the Park Blocks extend north all the way to Lovejoy.

    I used to support moving Portland’s intercity train hub across the River to Rose Quarter, but cutting out the river crossings really wouldn’t save more than 3 or 4 minutes from a “high speed” train trip — pretty trivial for a trip to Eugene or Seattle, even if the train speed averages over 100 mph. Better to put the money into improving track, double-tracking along key segments, whatever is needed to speed up the trains and let the Talgo trains get up to 125 mph along some segments.

    If someone can figure out how to let a public market co-exist with Amtrak in Union Station, I’d be all for it.

  18. Also note the westside main RR line (BNSF) is double track all the way to Vancouver, while the eastside line (UPRR) is single track thru the tunnel in N. Portland.
    I agree, our very limited intercity passenger resources should go for more trains…Eugene to Vancouver BC… at higher speeds up to 125mph which would put Eugene just over an hour away and Seattle about two. Not the TGV, but not bad.

  19. I say tear it down, along with the eyesore greyhound station and post office that looks like some holdover from the 60’s. None of these structures fit into the ultra-modern Pearl Development. We could put the post office by the airport and build a new train station by the convention center.

  20. Since we have no problem with discussing undergrounding MAX through downtown Portland (a horrendously expensive prospect requiring the shoring up of existing buildings, relocation of numerous utilities, and tunnelling under a river), why can’t we re-route the north-south mainline from East Portland through Albina Yard (where ODOT has already paid UP for a “run-through track), widen the North Portland tunnel to two-tracks – thereby giving us the double-track mainline, without having to crawl over the Steel Bridge, and the permanent slow order over the Willamette River draw between Willbridge and St. Johns? Not to mention that such a route would shave two miles over the “westside” route.

  21. There were proposals a few years back to make the centrally located Post Office site a major league ball park, is this idea passed??? Theory is if Portland had a superior ball park a major league team would eagerly follow..

  22. #5 It positions the area heavy rail system better for future upgrade to high speed rail (the real stuff, not the wanna be high speed rail like Acela). We need a good straight shot in and out of Portland. Imagine the 5-10 minutes it will save.

    The “straight shot” is I-5 north and McLoughlin Blvd. south (interstingly, the old U.S. 99 route.) Put HSR there, and we’ll need a new Interstate corridor.

    …High Speed Rail wouldn’t take up but TWO lanes at most IF it had to use interstate space. There are service roads there that could be cleared easily. But then of course… HSR isn’t all that reasonable right now either, especially with the station where it is.

  23. Lenny Anderson Says:

    “I wonder why anyone thinks there will be HSR to an eastside station in our life times when we can’t even get a morning train to Salem/Eugene?
    Historic Union Station will be renovated with URA money once boundaries are adjusted as it should be and will continue to serve intercity rail for a long time. Sorry.”

    Yeah, I know. My proposal is just logical dreaming to fix problems now. But yeah, I know, we won’t have decent transit in this country EVER again at the rate things are socializing. We’ve already lost untold sources of growth with our shrinking freedom. I can always dream, propose, and suggest solutions to the problems. I can do no more than that without money backing me, and hell, even when I have money backing my ideas and solutions it is unfeasible to resolve problems (lack of HSR) because of legistlative actions, hostile business environment, and lack of interest from the states and federal government to do smoething about it.

    …it mostly seems that they 1: don’t care, and 2: don’t want to give up the manipulatory power of subsidization for a better system.

  24. Nationally, Amtrack carries fewer people than MAX does locally. Rationally it should be shut down as useless, except a very few lines in the east.

    We definately should not be dreaming of a multi-billion dollar HSR system when there are no proven customers. Long distance rail was made obsolete by the jet aricraft just like mass transit was made obsolete by Ford’s car. It’s time to quit wasting billions.

    Thanks
    JK

  25. Long distance rail was made obsolete by the jet aricraft

    Yes, but short to medium distance rail was not made obsolete. For trips of less than 3 hours or 250 miles, rail is far more convenient than air.

    Why? Because air travel requires a _minimum_ of one hour before the journey to check in and go through security (more at peak times), plus a half hour after a flight’s arrival to receive your checked bags. And, for most people, checking luggage is no longer optional due to increasingly restrictive security.

    For rail journeys, you can usually walk directly from your car to the boarding platform, minutes before departure, and receive your bags within seconds of arrival at the same platform where you disembark.

    mass transit was made obsolete by Ford’s car

    I don’t think “obsolete” is the correct phrase in this case at all. More like “Ford’s car made mass transit less necessary for many middle class people in certain types of urban and suburban communities”.

    As an analogy, modern over-the-counter pain relievers have not made old-fashioned aspirin obsolete… it still has its uses.

    As for your primary point that MAX carries more people than Amtrak, I agree, that is a good answer as to why light rail has gotten more attention than commuter rail or HSR.

    – Bob R.

  26. If the AMTRAK route is ever used as a commuter line, it would make more sense to keep it where it is, since the east side already has the MAX line.

    I agree that investing in more frequent service would be a better use of funds dedicated to AMTRAK. And since government contracts are known for cost overruns, I think someone should do a call back on any contractor who remodeled Union Station. For recent history of upgrades and proposals for Union Station see: http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2003/06/23/daily30.html

    The $50 million figure was only $20 miilion six years ago.

  27. Yes, but short to medium distance rail was not made obsolete. For trips of less than 3 hours or 250 miles, rail is far more convenient than air.

    Problem is, from Portland – just what falls under 250 miles?

    Seattle and Eugene.

    Vancouver, BC is over 250 miles. Spokane, Washington is over 250 miles. Boise, Idaho is over 250 miles. Any point in California – heck, just the California border is exactly 301 miles south of downtown Portland.

    Portland-Eugene just isn’t that big of a travel market as it is. Bend/Redmond is a decent market, but there will likely never be passenger rail service – straight line distance is about 120 miles; railroad distance is ~280 miles, and much of the route in the Deschutes River Canyon is hardly suitable for speeds faster than 30-40 MPH. Every other town within a 250 mile radius of Portland just isn’t of sufficient size to support huge investments in rail – HSR in Europe links city A with population over 1M, to city B with population over 1M. Why would a HSR, or even just a standard speed rail line, be built to some po-dunk town in Oregon with a population of maybe 10,000?

  28. Eugene, pop of 150,000
    Salem, pop of 150,000
    Corvallis, pop of 50,000
    Albany, pop of 40,000
    Seattle, pop of 570,000 (metro 3.8 million)
    Portland, pop of 550,000 (metro 1.9 million)
    Tacoma, pop of 200,000

    All these communities lie in a straight shot up the I-5 corridor, all but one of them is currently served by the current Amtrak train. This means little to no need to acquire new ROW, existing rails, and existing stations. All you need to do is improve what you’ve got (which is, of course, expensive) and you’ll be able to implement decent rail service.

    What we have now is not very good, and is prone to severe delays, but still gets a high level of patronage – that is increasing at an annual rate that is phenomenal.

    It had 636,892 in 2005. Amtrak said this was a 5.6% increase over 2004.

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