11 responses to “CRC Week: Rail Transit, TR-5, TR-6, TR-11, TR-12”

1. Commuter Rail just doesn’t have the numbers. Look at figures 3-1 and 3-7. The O&D for trips in 2020 are concentrated along I-5, the rail line north is along the western edge of this area. Likewise in figure 3-7, one can see that while Central City has 8500 origins, N Portland, Delta Park, Hayden Island and Rivergate together have twice that…17K. CR does not lend itself to distribution as well as lightrail does.
   I expect that all the talk of BRT, etc., is just going through the motions…extending MAX makes the most sense. Travel time from Expo to Rose Quarter is 20 minutes…add 5 to Downtown Vancouver and 10 to Pioneer SQ, and you have a pretty competetive travel time that allows links to Rivergate, Swan Island, Lloyd, with stops on Hayden Island, Delta Park, Lower Albina, etc.

2. Nice artwork on the Rail, I thought that Sound Transit would buy whatever rolling stock TriMet used, for ease of maintenance and other issues, but unfortunately, the higher voltage requirement made it a free-for-all on the bidding.

   As for High Speed Rail, I can understand why it may not be a good idea, right now. We cannot seem to get the necessary capitol to improve the tracks on the Pacific Northwest Rail Corridor, throughout it’s entire length. There are many choke points, where either a third main track or just another crossover could clear it up. North of 49, I believe the line is single-tracked, and it prevents Amtrak 516 from terminating in Vancouver B.C.(It currently turns back in Bellingham. It is T-4 years until the Vancouver Olympics, and it would be nice if Amtrak Cascades had at lest the pre-Amtrak schedule ont hat route with 2 daily trains running).

   Ferries crossing a river do have problems with constrained space. The Evergreen Fleet(Washington State Ferries) is phasing out Passenger Only ferries, due to high operating costs. Vehicles pay fares of around $10 a crossing, and the Auto-Ferries get close to being self-supporting. Under Long-Range Planning, the two routes with multiple stops are going to be broken up in the next decade or two. Private operators stood up last year to take over Passenger Only operations, and so far, one is working well, with Kitsap Transit, and the other went out of buisness after a few months. High Diesel Prices were one reason.

   I am not sure if a Passenger-Only Ferry or Water Taxi could work in the Columbia River crossing.

3. People might not be interested in commuter rail at the moment, but it would be a good investment in our future. As central Vancouver densifies, more people will be closer to the train station and likely be willing to ride. It would be successful if it were integrated into the existing transit system (CTRAN). It’s ridiculous to think that would be difficult or impossible. There’s no reason for that kind of assumption. It’s evidence that this study is biased at the core to one size fits all superhighway construction.

   Light rail would be the highest priority for transit improvements as it’s already so close and could generate high ridership. There will always be traffic on I-5. Whatever we do now to alleviate it will just be a temporary fix as traffic will grow indefinitely. The only good way to think about this is to offer as many different alternatives as possible to the single-occupancy vehicle, which there aren’t very many of right now (express bus, commuter rail, light rail, streetcar, freight rail, etc.). This is of the highest priority as oil is becoming more expensive (peak oil).

4. With our SOUNDER Commuter Rail line, the communities North of Seattle are calling it a waste of public dollars, but that is about to change very soon. In many neighborhoods within Seattle, Premium is now over $3 per gallon, and mid-grade is a few cents away. When Regular hits $3.01 per gallon in Snohomish County, the two-zone Everett-Seattle fare will be cheaper than a gallon of Regular Gasoline. SOUNDER-SOuth has the benefit of serving more communities, creating more possible trips, and in the case of KENT, has spawned development around the station. The trains get more passengers when fuel prices go up. They may face the same fuel costs, but in terms of Passenger-Miles Per Gallon, a 10 car Commuter Train, seating 120-140 passengers per car, will still get more PMPG, even if the locomotive only gets 3 Gallons Per Mile.

   Also, in Tacoma, Pierce Transit responded to an air quality crisis in the late-1980s by going to CNG as soon as their buses came due for replacement. That is now virtually-complete, and since their is not much CNG refueling infrastructure, they are dependent on their pumps not failing. They failed once, but thankfully their were alternatives. The Regional Express routes to Seattle they contract with Sound Transit are for the most part still using Diesel, so they were able to suspend route 590, and advised passengers to take SOUNDER. Fortunately they got the pumps working again by the Morning Rush-hour. The problem is, Tacoma-Seattle Commuter Trains are already packed, but they can add cars to them as needed, and that is an advantage.

   Hopefully if Gas Prices continue to hit $3 per gallon every summer, we could see a move to begin expanding Tacoma LINK, and maybe even gain support. It would be a win-win for everybody.

   In Vancouver, Light Rail would be one great option, if only the funding can be found. I have been following(and participating) in discussions on a few different boards up here on the alternatives to the rejected Green Line Monorail. An increasingly popular idea on one discussion board is the idea of a hybrid-Light Rail line connecting Ballard, Downtown, and West Seattle, with Streetcars as feeders. Now in Vancouver, that may seem like an idea that is ahead of it’s time, but I wished just once, a Washington State City would do something to be ready for future traffic problems other than just putting in more ashphalt and concrete.

5. One thing that is needed, is a funding mechanism that makes sure their is the money to build. A legsilator from Vancouver has to learn to work with legislators from Seattle, Spokane, Bellignham, and other parts of the state, to show that legalizing the use of Tax-Increment Financing in Washington State benefits every region, it is not a single region centric thing.

6. Evergreen Transit Fan,

   I would like to see a little imagination at work in these heavy rail commuter lines to make them cost effective. I suppose with Sounder they want to use a standard diesel-electric and conventional cars. Probably the same will happen with our Hwy 217 route, since it will run on Standard Guage track.

   However, we have a quirky little scenic train that has been running from NW Portland out to Astoria and back as an excursion. They use some high quality, but out of date, passenger cars. When I have been in Europe I have seen huge yards of older passenger cars. Would these be so hard to refurbish? You already have the basic carriage and car. If they were not available stateside, why not bring a group of them over by ship?

   So there could be a number of underutilized standard guage rail lines in the Northwest that could have a scheduled service—if the cost was low enough. I guess governments don’t think in very tight budget constraints. I know it is imperative that governments have safe facilities. But weren’t railcars of the 1950’s built to high standards?

7. They are using locomotives and multi-level cars on SOUNDER. It has been running since 2000, and ridership has been steadily growing. For the Everett line, I have suggested the use of DMUs. We also have the BNSF Woodinville Sub, which runs on the Eastside of Lake Washington, it has little freight traffic, and runs from Tukwilla to Snohomish, and has the potential of being a suburb to suburb link. It currently hosts the Spirit of Washington Dinner Train, and the slow orders are many, and BNSF wants to drop the line North of Renton’s Coulon Park(they still need to get to the Boeing Plant). There are people on the internet up here that are vocal about preserving it, and so are 8 of 9 County Councilmembers. SOUNDER has proven it’s worth for special events at the Stadiums, and for the NFC Championship Game, they ran three trains from Pierce County to King Street Station. They have 4 daily trains, but perhaps more will be added in the next few years. Gas Prices are now hitting $3, which for the Everett Line, is the fair to Seattle. Also on the Everett Line, their is a deal in place called RailPlus, where Amtrak Cascades cross-honors passes(but no single-trip tickets) on Amtrak Cascades Trains running North of Seattle. It has not yet been extended to the South segment, but it might be a good idea. THe fare for SOUNDER between Everett and Seattle is $3, now equivalant to a gallon of gas, and just a little more than ST Express Bus Fares, and Community Transit charges $3 for Commuter buses, $3.75 from Stanwood in the northern part of Snohomish County to Seattle. There may be an un-tapped market North of Everett as far as Stanwood, but nobody is considering it right now.

   Also, on a railfan board, I saw an article from the Billings Gazzette about an idea for the very cars used on the Lewis and Clark Explorer. The Montana/Wyoming Association of Rail Passengers thinks they could work on being a feeder to the Empire Builder that can serve most of Montana’s biggest cities. One of the three cars was used by Great Northern on that very route. It was dropped in 1962.

   We need an interconnected network of rail transit, but paying for it is the problem.

8. Their were stories about UTA in Utah going to use ex-Metra Gallery Cars in their new Front Runner system, but they have since ordered new rolling stock from Bombardier. Miami’s South Florida RTA started using used cars from Toronto, because it was only going to be temporary, but now they are going for Colorado Railcar DMUs. Probably due to their higher capacity, and the fact that Colorado Railcar goes against the grain. Commuter Rail coaches are usually 85ft, their’s are 89ft. Wheelchair lifts would probably take the place of seats on the older cars.

   In Dallas, RDCs still run next to modern rolling stock. Up in Canada, West of Toronto, 1950s vintage rolling stock still runs on VIA 1 and 2, the Canadian, and until recently, they were also using them in corridor service. Amtrak even used inherited equipment on runs East of Chicago for decades, the coaches and sleeprs have been retired, but the baggage cars and diners continue to run. On the Heartland Flyer out of Dallas, they use ex-Santa Fe High Level coaches, these cars were built in the 1950s, and they are capable of operating with Superliners, as they do on the Coast Starlight. Toronto’s Go Transit still uses bi-levels that date back 2 or three decades, alongside brand new ones. Also before the Gallery Cars pioneered by Chicago and Northwestern and the Burlington, railroads often used rolling stock that had been retired from main-line passenger duty.

9. I think it makes a lot of sense to get MAX to downtown Vancouver where the hub for the C-Tran local system is and which is also a major metro regional center. As far what happens past downtown Vancouver and with what mode I think is a matter of large debate in the Vancouver area.
   The local C-Tran bus system can serve as a feeder system for the MAX line to Portland but they can also operate independently with C-tran feeding into the heart of Clark County with or without riders transfering between systems.

   I question commuter rail in that most commuter rail systems are peak-hour in peak direction on weekdays only and have only about 3-4 trains per commute time. If it could be more frequent it could be a more logical option in my opinion.

   I dont understand the logic behind using a streetcar in the Columbia River Bridge area. Light Rail makes a lot of sense especially with the existing yellow line, but a streetcar seems so out of place in this setting.

10. Ride the Yellow Line out to Expo…you are about 1 minute from Jantzen Beach, 5 from downtown Vancouver. It would need to continue to some logical first phase endpoint like Clark college (then you could ride from CC to PSU on the Yellow Line in about 45 minutes).
    Funding? locat match…bridge tolls, C-Tran sales tax increase, City of Vancouver sales tax increase? Interstate URA extension to Hayden Island.

11. You know, I’d rather see Electric Multiple Unit trains than DMUs, because of the pollution issue, and electric trains are cheaper on maintenance and fuel costs.

    California is looking at electrifying the Caltrains corridor in the Bay Area, in addition to their high speed rail system on the planning boards. Which will cost $25 billion, by the way. =P