In another thread here, and on blogs all over town, people were just itching to talk about the new Major League Soccer proposal, the future of baseball in Portland, the fate of Memorial Coliseum, a stadium for Lents, etc…
Please consider this thread the place to talk about the transportation and land use impacts of major sports facilities, and what’s good or bad for Portland in the current proposal and likely scenarios.
I’ll start off with a few pros and cons about some various locations:
PGE Park
Pros: Great transit and walking access, on MAX, close to proposed future streetcar corridor on Burnside. Near I-405 freeway.
Cons: Area not well-suited to intensive auto activity before and after an event, as far as connectivity to the freeway and parking are concerned. Other nearby land uses prevent large-scale expansion.
Rose Quarter
Pros: Great transit and freeway access. Well-established in folks’ minds as a central location for large events. Event attendees are already using transit to a significant degree.
Cons: Not so good for walking as there aren’t many other destinations to cater to pedestrians in the immediate vicinity, few residences nearby. Further expansion of sports-related uses in the area may create more of a dead-zone at other times.
Lincoln High School
Pros: Near PGE park, MAX, bus transit on Columbia/Jefferson, medium-density residential, PSU.
Cons: Adding more major event facilities in this area may disrupt other local uses. Redevelopment of the site first requires construction of a new high school.
Lents
Pros: Near I-205, new MAX Green Line, east-west bus transit connections, possible future Streetcar corridor. Local neighborhood support for project (from what I’ve read.)
Cons: May deter attendance from west-side users, whether via transit or auto. Effect on neighborhood may be more “transformative” than locals had in mind when facility is unused.
47 responses to “Major Sports Facilities – Land Use and Transportation”
Here are some sports facility-related comments excerpted from another thread:
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March 12, 2009 1:08 PM
Wells Says:
Yesterday’s City Council approval of a soccar franchise and locating a new baseball park in the Rose Garden area may be a snag in the works. I have to agree with Blazer management who oppose the idea.
Perhaps the most crucial element of our streetcar system is its ability to help guide growth. A ballpark does not qualify as suitable growth because it would not compliment current Rose Quarter uses and attracts streetcar riders only during a game.
Thanks a lot, Sam.
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March 12, 2009 1:30 PM
Lenny Anderson Says:
Baseball is played in spring/summer; basketball in fall/winter/spring…there cannot be a better fit for the Rose Quarter than a baseball park.
And right next to a Streetcar stop to boot; walking distance from MAX. What is not to like?
Blazers may have something up there sleeve, but with all Allen’s dough, they have done nothing to make the Rose Quarter work. Of course the area will never really take off until the freeway is buried or better removed. Go Bevos! Go Timbers!
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March 12, 2009 3:44 PM
Jeff F Says:
[…] the MLS decision is a tragedy for baseball, IMO. That is a baseball park with a very long and venerable history; too damn many like it have been torn down. The structure dates back to 1926 and it is a gem of a park, especially since the remodel. I sat through a double-header with my dad in the late 50s, so I can attest to the sentimental value.
I appreciate soccer, but that’s a baseball park, and I sincerely doubt that MLS is going to fly in Portland.
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March 12, 2009 4:33 PM
Ray Whitford Says:
Sorry JeffF, Civic Stadium/PGE Park was a Greyhound/Horse Racing/Football Stadium at its start and should be reverted to it’s original intent (Football only please ;-)). Sightlines for baseball are terrible. I also was taken to Civic Stadium back in the 1960’s to see the Beavers (great time). I will love to watch baseball in the new AAA stadium in the Rose Quarter with my son.
Give Portland and future father/son gatherings at the ballpark a true baseball park experience. Things changes. This is not a change that should be that upsetting. Again, things change and we will move on for this planet that we call Home.
[…]
Ray Whitford
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March 12, 2009 5:21 PM
Jeff F Says:
Ray Whitford Says:
Sorry JeffF, Civic Stadium/PGE Park was a Greyhound/Horse Racing/Football Stadium at its start and should be reverted to it’s original intent (Football only please ;-)).
Dog & horse racing were introduced seven years after it was built for revenue, Ray. It doesn’t work for football, if only because it’s missing half the grandstand. And I think the sightlines are great, but that’s a personal opinion. An emotionally-charged opinion at that. I’m likewise very sad to see Eugene’s Civic Stadium being destroyed, but PK Park will be very snazzy when complete.
[…]
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March 12, 2009 11:13 PM
Wells Says:
Baloney, Lenny. A Rose Quartr baseball park will sit empty during basketball season, and visa versa. Duh. A ‘complimentary’ use would be something besides another sports arena. Not that long ago, a proposed remodel of Memorial Colliseum meant to turn it into a sports gym, office and shops which would’ve been a ‘complimentary’ use. Hey. A sports arena is a “luxury”, a high cost “luxury”, affordable to those who have more “money” than they know what to do with. Wheee! Rich Mr Paulson, he’s a multi-millionaire. This is no time for “luxury”, Mr Anderson.
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March 13, 2009 12:18 AM
Douglas K. Says:
Baseball is played in spring/summer; basketball in fall/winter/spring…there cannot be a better fit for the Rose Quarter than a baseball park.
What the Rose Quarter really needs are daytime attractors. The place is a dead zone when there isn’t a game or concert or something. Another stadium for evening use wouldn’t help much.
Ideally, we’d find a conversion for the Memorial Coliseum that would bring people in 10-6 p.m. Maybe something like OMSI (although obviously not OMSI itself, since it already has a home) or a public market. Something that could take advantage of all the Rose Quarter parking without interfering with games and concerts.
What about Gateway? They have excellent accessibility, lower land costs than the Rose Quarter, and is in desperate need of some sort of identity and activity center.
I don’t like MLB for Portland. There are simply too many games and seats to fill, especially in this economy. I think a NFL team would be the best fit; people would love it and it’s only 8 games per year. Perhaps a new Football stadium could be located along planned Milwaukee Light Rail.
Has Alpenrose out off SW Shattuck been considered for baseball? The facilities are already associated with the Little League World Series. Obviously there are no HCT connections but this seems just as feasible as some of the other possibilities.
I don’t undertstand how a baseball park is not compatible with the Rose Quarter.
You can build all sorts of restaurants, shops, and attractions around the outside of the baseball park, I have seen that in plenty of cities.
The Rose Quarter is known as a “venue”. We have the convention center, the Rose Garden Coliseum, yet another venue would be perfect.
In addition, for concerts and whatnot – there are very few residents that are impacted.
Transit connects with there via all 4 MAX lines, the proposed Streetcar loop, and many bus lines. There is already parking in the area, and hotels are accessible. It is accessible via I84 and I5, 99E and several river bridges. It is even in a key location on the bicycle network. Easily one of the most “connected” spots in the region.
Paul Allen’s “vision” could include a ball park, if it is designed right. There should be lots of stuff there to do. In fact, we should create a retail and entertainment corridor connecting the Lloyd District to the Rose Quarter. Give tourists something to do before and after the games, something that they can walk around and enjoy. There is plenty of potential and need (the Lloyd district is mostly plain boring office space with no streetfront retail or attraction).
We should keep things that are big draws – in the central city. In the middle, to take advantage of the greatest population density and the most transit and the least driving distance for the entire population.
John Reinhold Says: I don’t undertstand how a baseball park is not compatible with the Rose Quarter.
I just don’t see where they can put it, at least not without tearing down parking garages, which defeats some of the purpose of being there.
The possibility of using the current PPS land on the far side of Broadway has been raised; it seems much more suitable for building a ballpark, but it loses virtually all of the transit advantages of the Rose Quarter.
I find it difficult to imagine an increase in retail and entertainment in the area because all of the sporting events are primarily night-time. The Beavers potentially could play more day games, but only at the cost of fewer customers, and without some other activity in the area, there wouldn’t be any customers for restaurants and stores during the day.
The thriving restaurant/bar neighborhoods I’ve seen around sports venues exist when the sports venue is plunked down in the middle of an existing neighborhood; not much grows up spontaneously just because a stadium is there — probably because stadia spend most of their time empty.
PGE Park, Civic Stadium or as my mom calls it Multnomah Stadium is too big for AAA baseball. When you’ve got 5000 people it feels empty. Put those same 5000 people in a right-sized 8000 seat stadium and it is an incredible ambiance.
As for the Memorial Coliseum site, A baseball stadium doesn’t preclude additional development in fact it might help development. My understanding is that one of the big issues with building condos in that area is the horrendously ugly Louis-Dreyfus grain elevator that blocks views of the downtown skyline.
If you build a baseball stadium, you can develop condos that take advantage of the view of the stadium. That is what happened in San Diego’s Gas Lamp district with the new Petco Park.
The Blazers have had plenty of opportunity (14 years) to do something with the area. Unless they have, to borrow a phrase, shovel-ready plans for the Memorial Coliseum site, I see no reason to even consider them (clearly you’ll consider them but not to the extent of not building a baseball stadium).
PS I guess I should have something transit related…the condos looking into the stadium would increase density and be very sought after due to their location at a very multi-modal transportation node (Eastbank Esplanade, MAX, Streetcar, I-5, i-84 and even I-405).
The Lents site was the best choice. It would have created a dynamic green line station area, development would have spilled over into the adjoining town center and the Powell station area, and it would have opened up the Gresham and Clackamas markets for attendance. For the size of the stadium being built, the neighborhood is a better scale too.
Lents was the first choice through the whole process, even up until the end. But, when the figures that Merritt Paulson was contributing to construction hit 0ver $20m, retaining the 20% of the current attendance for Beavers games that come out of the western suburbs became more palatable than gambling on a new market. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the way it goes. Until the negative and incorrect market perception of East Portland neighborhoods can be overcome, the central city will always be able to easily siphon away significant projects and investment.
A 9,000 seat stadium is just going to create another “hole” in the Rose Quarter no matter where you put it. The factor that is killing it now is the number of large blocks with imposing buildings. No matter how much retail you try to squeeze in around the periphery of those behemoths, it’s not going to be helped by adding more of the same thing that’s making it an activity desert now.
As much as I appreciate the historical value of Civic Stadium (refuse to use the corporate moniker), it truly stinks as a baseball venue. The sight lines are all wrong, there’s too much foul territory and turf fields change the dynamics of the game too dramatically for my taste. I would love to see a new baseball stadium, sized appropriately for AAA ball, but with the capability of expansion should we be so fortunate to get a MLB franchise one day.
What about the main Post Office site on Broadway and Hoyt? I thought that was being considered once upon a time? That’s an appealing option, in my view, as it’s close to housing, restaurants, transit, and would be in an already vibrant neighborhood?
Just a thought, Portland should keep Memorial Coliseum and look into a new NHL expansion. This could create a rivalry with the Vancouver team and facilitate travel between the two cities, along with increasing Portland’s presence in Canada, the Midwest, and Northeast. Let’s also do away with the insensitive mascot.
I think Merritt Paulson is a gold-digger. If he wants to throw his however-gotten gains around to put his name on some signature project, let him put it on something that caters less to his priviledged corporate class and relies less on public investment; something like Rose Quarter waterfront condos (including a railroad tunnel) and relocating the grain elevator to North Portland.
I’ve got no problem with Lents but living in the western suburbs makes it a very long trip. NHL was bandied about a lot in the ’90s but no NHL team would play in the Coliseum for the same reasons no NBA team would (size, luxury boxes and other amenities). As for relocating the grain-elevator. Rumor was that Paul Allen offered to do that but the Louis-Dreyfus family has no incentive to move.
I can’t even believe they are talking about this?
Am I living in a FELLINI movie or what?
When they discuss a STADIUM and transit options I think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhC8Tko6rZY
As someone who attends upwards of ten Timbers matches and five Beavers games a year, I really take exception to Wells’s idea that this caters to the “privileged corporate class.” I’m not privileged, nor am I corporate – I’m a college student who manages to scrap together enough savings to attend the games of two teams I really love and care about. I think if you ever go to a Timbers match and take a look at the Timbers Army, you’ll find that it’s a real cross-section of Portland – something that brings the community together rather than tearing it apart.
As for keeping the Coliseum . . . it’s in really, really bad shape. Since the Blazers moved out in 1995 (?), it’s received little or no maintenance. I’d love to see NHL happen, but if it does, it’s happening in the Rose Garden. And given Paul Allen’s opposition to even MLS taking a share out of the Portland sports pie, I don’t think we’ll ever see it. Nor will we see NFL – they’re not remotely interested in us. Our only real shot at them was the Delta Dome, however many years ago that was.
The other thing people are forgetting about the Coliseum are the veterans for whom it was originally named. They retain a vested interest in the facility, and they were NOT going to let it be turned into a gym/offices/shops. They are, however, okay with building a “Memorial Stadium” with a better veterans monument, which Paulson has set aside money to do.
PGE Park lost the ability to be upgraded for Major League Baseball as soon as they built “The Civic,” or whatever those condos across Morrison Street from the stadium are called. If you look at the concept drawings by the Oregon Stadium Campaign, the Park would need to be expanded all the way to Burnside. At 20,000 seats, PGE is too big for AAA, but way too small for MLB. Adding a second deck just isn’t feasible.
Capping all this off is the fact that PGE was originally a horseshoe that had the 18th Ave. wing taken off when the Beavers moved there from Vaughn St. in 1956. Restoring the horseshoe would make the stadium a natural fit for both soccer and PSU football, giving both teams a fantastic facility. In the meantime, the Beavers get to move back to a suitably-sized ballpark (even Vaughn St. only seated 12,000) that will substantially increase their ability to stay in Portland long-term.
To throw in a bone for transit, that was a major factor in the decision-making process. I think Sam Adams mentioned that something like 65% of even attendees at PGE use transit to get to the stadium. (I’m one of them.) The Rose Quarter baseball site is going to straddle both MAX and streetcar lines. In this economic climate, I don’t think developers are going to be lining up along the new streetcar route, and I think people are underestimating the potential commercial impact of baseball. The Portland Beavers have exactly DOUBLE (82) the number of home games as the Blazers (41). In cavernous PGE, the Bevos averaged 5500 people in attendance last year. Let’s assume that increases slightly with a new facility, say . . . 6500. That’s a lot of potential riders, and if streetcar develops properly, this could be a boon for everybody along the line.
Am I biased in my support of this proposal? Absolutely. But I really think this is a great deal for the city – two new stadiums for $60 million. Even if you’re not a sports fan and aren’t quite sure why this is essential from that standpoint (perhaps another thread), you can look at the stadiums as spark-plugs for transit-oriented development on both sides of the river and as vehicles for job creation in both the short and long term.
-Rant over- :-)
I forgot to mention in my comments regarding the Rose Quarter that the fate of Memorial Coliseum is important to me.
It is an architecturally significant site… the stadium in a glass box was one of the first (the very first?) to be built that way, and it is still distinctive.
I know the stadium itself is lacking in modern luxury amenities and tech, but could the inner bowl be completely remodeled while keeping the ultimate architectural shape of stadium-in-a-box?
I think too many people see it merely as a worn-out, boring facility, and I personally tend to gravitate away from mid-century-modern, but I do think it has a charm all its own that elevates it above typical civic architecture for the time, and with the right combination of uses and upgrades, can shine again.
Bob, I agree. The advantage of keeping Memorial Coliseum over putting up a ballpark is that you can retain the architecture. If anything, Memorial Coliseum helps the Rose Quarter in that it adds a layer of architectural interest that will go away if a standard ballpark takes its place.
Where will all those high school kids graduate?!!
Anywhere else, please. Worst graduation venue ever.
If a new AAA ballpark is to be built here, and I’m beginning to slowly come around to the idea, there’s no reason it can’t be of architectural interest. I dunno what a “standard” ballpark is these days, but MLB teams have been moving into some beautiful sites in the last few years. Isn’t the Coliseum site high enough that it could be constructed with a nice view of the Willamette and the city?
And, of course, it’s close to transit!
The Rose Quarter is absolutely the wrong place to construct a stadium for the Beavers.
First and foremost The Memorial Coliseum is a building that not only honors fallen veterans, but it is also rich with history as a sports arena. Paulson and the City say they are committed to building another memorial if the building is demolished. At who’s cost and where? Not good enough! The less than transparent closed door process cloaked and clouded by a stacked deck political smoke screen demonstrates there is a need for more public involvement in the process instead of just listening to the special interests, no matter how vocal and organized they are. For the most part, the public has been kept in the dark until a short window of time opened up just prior to the public hearing. The games people play has taken priority over the basic services government should be providing. The tactic of bait and switch with regards to the location of where the Beavers will play, that includes demolishing the Memorial Coliseum, is a slap in the face to the military veterans who have been engaged in protecting our constitutional freedoms. The City Council needs to connect to the public and listen to the citizens of Portland before any conclusive decision is made about the Rose Quarter, the Memorial Coliseum and where the Beaver games should be played.
Second, City Commissioner Randy Leonard says a new stadium in the Rose Quarter will revitalize the area. The Rose Garden Arena the Blazers play in was supposed to do that. Even with two Max lines converging nearby at a major transit transfer center, it didn’t. Moreover, the Blazers do not like the deal. Not good enough! When the Rose Garden Arena is idle, so is the entire Rose Quarter. Although a new baseball stadium will lessen the days when the Rose Quarter is idle, the stadium too will sit idle and empty for long peroids of time. Small businesses can not survive the idle times. Streetcar or no streetcar, having this much land tied up as a sports open field to be used only on a seasonal basis is out of place at the Rose Quarter. A better plan would be to find a new use for the Memorial Coliseum; be it a hotel, offices, or a year round destination place to go that an open field can not accommodate. Any field of dreams needs to be located outside of the central city.
One other note: Bob are you ready for this, I agree with your architectural assessment of the Memorial Coliseum as a reason to preserve it.
Terry Parker: First and foremost The Memorial Coliseum is a building that not only honors fallen veterans, but it is also rich with history as a sports arena. Paulson and the City say they are committed to building another memorial if the building is demolished.
The Veterans have already established that a re-purposing of the Memorial Coliseum is unacceptable, Terry. Why not kill two birds with one stone and dedicate the ballpark to Veterans, just as a sports arena once was?
There is a LOT of activity in the Rose Quarter, at least throughout the Transit Center, pretty much constantly during the day and into the evening.
Terry – I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but you’re way off base. The Coliseum is rich with sports history, I’ll give you that. But have you been there lately? I have. (Go Hawks!) I won’t go so far as to say it’s a dump, but it’s definitely not nice. The city is losing money on that building hand over fist, and I’d go so far as to say that it’s current dilapidated state isn’t exactly a great living memorial to veterans.
With regard to the public process, there was a task force established to hold hearings on this issue. They’ve been meeting about every other week since December and taken a LOT of public testimony. There was a transparent public process, Terry. You chose not to be involved in it, so lay off the political buzzwords.
Veterans groups (I believe the Legion and the VFW) were, in fact, represented at the task force meetings, and indicated that as long as veterans continued to be honored at a new stadium, they weren’t opposed to new development. However, a repurposing of the Coliseum would NOT have been acceptable. The new memorial would, I believe, be built at Paulson’s expense. If you can explain to me how all that’s a slap in the face, I give up.
Re: Architectural significance. Thanks, Terry.
Terry:“A better plan would be to find a new use for the Memorial Coliseum; be it a hotel, offices, or a year round destination place to go that an open field can not accommodate.”
ws:I feel that converting it to these uses is more of a slap to the memorial status than enhancing it or creating a new one.
It’s hard for the public to express appreciation for Veterans when a Dunder Mifflin type company would be working behind that glass structure. I think its next use should be more “public” in nature.
I would like to note, that the “memorial” aspect is somewhat hidden in this modernist architectural expression. I’d like someone to point out, other than the building’s name, where something is being memorialized. I have yet to see it.
This is not evocative, meaningful, or metaphorical as Maya Lin’s work on the Vietnam Veteran’s Memorial.
Terry Parker:“Any field of dreams needs to be located outside of the central city.”
ws:Why? I hardly consider the Rose Quarters the “central city”. However, most popular ballparks that have lasted or will last are in an urban context: Wrigley Field, Fenway Park, Safeco, PNC Park, Petco Park etc.
Unless you want a new stadium to pull an ARCO arena:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARCO_Arena
The home of the Sacramento Kings, which was built near nothing in particular (If you have driven down there, you’d see it is not even close to anything).
Now they want millions more to rebuild to a new location in downtown, just after 20 years of the facility being open.
Mr Walsh, Sports arenas these days are all about corporate sponsorship. New arenas supposedly require ‘separate and private’ corporate viewing suites. Aging sports arenas that lack exclusive suites are demolished and replaced at public expense as if in the public interest.
Mr Paulson is a ‘gold-digger’ because the USA is suffering through an economic meltdown. And his occupation in the business world suggests he survives the current crisis with money to burn, and his sense of obligatory investment in America goes no further than foolish pleasures and luxury appointments, war dead memorials and public school facilities be damned.
If Merritt Paulson has political aspirations, he may be building support within soccar mom and sports fanatics constituencies. USA! USA! We’re #1. We’re #1. Uh-huh. Sure, we are, in ‘crime’, ‘imperialism’, homelessness, income gap between the rich and the poor, prison population.
If this is the opportune time to consider building a new sports arena, I’m ashamed of being a Portlander.
Let’s try not to make this about personalities, but about the land use and transport implications, either regarding the current proposal or sports facilities in general.
I really like using the Post Office site for this. It would be a way to tie the Union Station, Pearl and Chinatown areas closer together, and would be a great catalyst for getting some nightlife and hopefully a hotel next to Union Station.
It’s one of the few real dead zones left on the west side, it’s fairly transit accessible, and would allow for a major league sized stadium with other urban development attached.
The only other areas I can find with underdeveloped land and easy access are the Central Waterfront, Cascade Station, or outside of Portland’s city limits. The CeWa area would be interesting, maybe reminiscent of AT&T Park in San Francisco, but unlikely to be politically viable right now. Cascade Station already has hotels and regional connectivity, but putting an open air ballpark under a runway landing approach doesn’t seem like it would be too popular of an idea.
Cascade Station has a lot going for it… noise is an issue, but a stadium full of fans might be able to drown out a lot of jet noise.
If the noise-for-fans issue can be mitigated or doesn’t turn out to be too unbearable, there are a lot of positives to the Cascade Station area:
1. Already a good selection of nearby (major chain) retail and food.
2. Large, undeveloped parcels.
3. Well served by I-205, 82nd Ave., and Red Line.
4. Easy transfers at Gateway from Blue and Green lines.
5. The opposite noise issue: Loud sporting event noises are compatible with surrounding uses.
Negatives:
1. Are building heights limited in the area due to flight paths which would prevent a stadium of the necessary height from being built?
2. Takes a long time to reach from west of Downtown, whether via auto or transit.
1. Are building heights limited in the area due to flight paths which would prevent a stadium of the necessary height from being built?
I’d assume that lighting could be a problem, but a sunken bowl design could be used to put the field level below ground level. The Embassy Suites for example is 8 floors, so I bet it could be done.
Since the idea struck me I’ve been kicking it around in my head, and the more I think about it the more reasonable it seems. Yes, it’s not too centrally located, but it adds another value to the MAX and Airport Way improvements that have been done over the years. Plus there are all the airport hotels, so for hosting non-baseball events it would be practical as well.
I also wanted to toss out the idea of Washington Park, near the Zoo. Yes, it would require a bit of land moving and is in environmental ways rather unpalatable. But, I bet the views from the stadium would be great, and the location is fairly underused with the MAX right there.
I don’t think there’s a viable 4-acre site in Washington Park that isn’t being used.
Cascade Station would be a good site, but if we’re looking that far east, consider Gateway itself. Close 99th between Pacific and Multnomah, and make Multnomah a continuous street from 102nd to the Park & Ride structure. Put the Oregon Clinic parking to the east of the clinic instead of south, and remodel Fred Meyer to put their “back door” at the northeast corner of the building.
That would leave 4 acres of surface parking just north of Pacific — a good site for a small stadium, served by the Blue, Red and Green lines plus multiple buses.
Another good 4-acre site: the Lloyd Cinemas parking lot north of Holladay Park. It’s closer to the west side, and served by the Blue, Red, and Green lines. Build a parking structure at 16th and Multnomah to add to Lloyd Center parking, and let mall parking serve the mall, the movie theater and the ballpark.
Where at Gateway? Tearing down existing buildings? It seems like a bad idea in the long term.
I wasn’t thinking of touching any existing buildings. Just rerouting some traffic and building over some of the massive surface parking lots.
All things considered, though, I think I like the Lloyd Cinemas parking lot better.
Douglas K. Says: Another good 4-acre site: the Lloyd Cinemas parking lot north of Holladay Park. It’s closer to the west side, and served by the Blue, Red, and Green lines. Build a parking structure at 16th and Multnomah to add to Lloyd Center parking, and let mall parking serve the mall, the movie theater and the ballpark.
A parking structure with metered parking would have a secondary effect of ending the use of the existing lot as a de facto free Park & Ride (assuming free MAX trains remain within easy walking distance).
I like the Lloyd Center site as well. It might encourage Lloyd Center to redevelop the Multnomah side of the mall into somewhat of a retail street.
Before planning to remodel properties owned by private entities to accomplish what could be argued as corporate welfare for other private entities, you might want to get the opinion of all parties involved.
Declaring a remodel for the gateway Fred Meyer store would represent quite a capital expenditure for Fred Meyer.
Declaring a remodel for the gateway Fred Meyer store would represent quite a capital expenditure for Fred Meyer.
It could, or it could be an opportunity for Fred Meyer to end up with a much more desirable location (think of a Ballpark Village around it), and get renovations paid for in part with public capital.
I still don’t see how that site would work though, unless the ballpark replaces some of the store it just doesn’t look like there’s enough space.
I thought Gateway was a designated Metro Town Center.
Doesn’t make much sense to basically nuke it (by destroying all business at its core – thus destroying the heart of the town center) and placing a baseball field that’ll essentially be dead, unused real estate.
Put it out by the airport. At least the land out there isn’t being used for anything else and likely won’t be, other than more “transit-oriented” strip malls that are no different than what’s out on 82nd Avenue or on T.V. Highway or McLoughlin Boulevard or Mill Plain. And it’ll give TriMet a claim that the Cascades Station and Mt. Hood MAX stations actually do attract ridership. In fact the area as Cascades Parkway curves up and around just west of the Mt. Hood MAX station looks like a good location.
Between the MAX line and NE Mt St Helens Ave, north of NE Alderwood Rd? That’s exactly what I was thinking. Ikea gets more parking and more exposure, parking already exists (lots of tailgate space!), room for expansion if we get a MLB team, hotels nearby, easy access to MAX and freeways, and would add value to the rest of Cascade Station, as well as help give NE some identity.
I’m sure someone can find a reason to complain, but I like it a lot more than tearing down Memorial Coliseum, removing private businesses, or putting it outside Portland. I also like to Post Office site, but Cascade Station seems like an easy out.
The problem I have with the airport site is light transit coverage. The red line runs by every fifteen minutes, and because of the single-track at Gateway, there’s a practical limit to how many trains can be run out there. It also appears unlikely that Tri-Met will run additional buses out to the airport.
The Lloyd Center location seems pretty close to ideal if you want to save the Memorial Coliseum (which I do.). Nothing is affected but a surface parking lot, and the lost parking can be replaced right across the street by adding more structured parking around the east end of Lloyd Center.
There isn’t room for a huge stadium there, but if the goal is to build a never-bigger-than-minor league ballpark, it’s exactly the right size.
Let me take back what I said about there not being enough space in Washington Park. The Zoo parking lot is just about the right size.
Problem is, the zoo doesn’t have enough parking as is, and really can’t stand to lose any more spaces.
Solution: put the stadium on top of two or three stories of underground parking in the lower zoo parking lot, and then build an attractive parking structure on the upper lot above the MAX station. The Zoo (and the Childrens Museum and Forestry Center) get more parking during the day, and the Stadium would have access to a lot of parking that otherwise sits empty in the evenings. It would mean the Beavers couldn’t hold afternoon games during the summer (zoo parking tends to overflow), and the Zoo would have to avoid scheduling any summer concerts during home games.
Since the Red and Blue lines serve the Washington Park station, there would be satisfactory transit coverage. So maybe a Washington Park site could be a win-win for everyone.
Then again, I have no idea if the Zoo would consider a stadium to be a desirable neighbor, or what the neighbors outside the park would think about games all summer. Some of them are already pretty cranky about the zoo having concerts a couple nights a week.
Why save MC? Its old, its tired, its time is up.
I look forward to watching the Bevos at a new AAA Memorial Field with views to City Center. This central location has tons of transit with the new Steetcar, 4 MAX lines and a dozen bus lines.
The challenge for the Rose Quarter has always been the freeway, which needs to be buried from Flint to I-84. It cuts off the Convention Center from the River and severs the Rose Quarter from Lloyd District.
Then there needs to be better access to the River and new Willamette Greenway Trail. Straightening and putting the UPRR mainline in a tunnel will take care of that. They hate the S curves there.
“It could, or it could be an opportunity for Fred Meyer to end up with a much more desirable location (think of a Ballpark Village around it), and get renovations paid for in part with public capital.”
Unfortunately, that store takes a hit in the form of customers going somewhere else during the year+ it takes to do the construction. Less revenue, lost customers, etc. In an economy where retail is already hurting.
Apropos of Lenny’s comments: Where are you going to get the $10B+ to completely rebuild the freeway and UP mainline? We can’t even get the Sellwood Bridge replaced, for a miniscule fraction of what it would cost. Massachusetts is going to be paying for the Big Dig for 50 years, and is deferring maintenance on who knows what just to pay the debt service.
A noble goal, no doubt; but very unrealistic financially.
The UPRR S curve is a major bottle neck for them, and the land they need to go thru (under) is owned by Paul Allen who has $ Billions. Look for some kind of deal there, especially if the grain dock relocates, and Allen’s Rose Quarter can spill across Interstate Avenue down to the banks of the River.
re I-5…its already below grade from Flint to Clackamas…just cover it. There is talk about a 3 lane to I-84, make that a requirement of that project. Of course, I would just remove I-5 south of I-84 which would simplify things. But, yes, its all a reach. Meanwhile I can live with the new Streetcar line taking me to the new ballpark where MC used to be.
re I-5…its already below grade from Flint to Clackamas…just cover it. There is talk about a 3 lane to I-84, make that a requirement of that project.
That’s actually a great idea. I’d love to see it happen, as well as all the sunken parts of I-405. The feeders to the Fremont are great, but let’s sink the rest.
I-84 after that. We can do it!
This sounds a bit redundant, but instead of tearing down Memorial Coliseum, why not modify it to accomodate the Beavs?
Paul Allen and The Paulson Family have a lot of money to do such a thing.
However, the veterans part of MC should be re-built or preserved. Meritt Paulson has set aside money to do this, which is great.
What about MC’s exhibit hall?
What would happen to it if the MC site
is chosen for the new ballpark?
Anyway, three other sites should be considered
for the new ballpark, which the City
should tread with caution.
1.} Post Office
I am intrigued using the current site
on NW Broadway for the new stadium.
But how will it work since the majority
of NW is crammed with apartments, condos,
and expensive restaurants.
2.} NE 82nd
The stadium should be close to
Cascade Station, light rail,
and the airport but not too close.
3.} North Portland
Nobody wants to talk much
about this part of Portland.
But where would the stadium go?
I propose Marine Drive/Expo Center.
It’s close to a MAX stop
and when the Expo Center is not
hosting an event, it’s boring.
Also take into consideration
Portland is NOT a sports-friendly city.
And what would the stadium
be named if any of these four sites
are chosen as the new home for the Beavs?
There isn’t a good available site 4-acre site near the 82nd Avenue MAX station.
The Post Office site would work.
I’m sure there would be room to carve out a four-acre parcel next to Portland International Raceway if we wanted to put it there. It’s close to a freeway, but MAX service is pretty limited.
I still like the big Lloyd Cinema parking lot next to Holladay Park. Three MAX lines, good road access, reasonably close to both I-5 and I-84, lots of existing parking within a few blocks, and an easy way to replace lost movie theater parking right across the street.