The final days of the legislative session were very good for Streetcar in Portland. The package of Lottery bonding projects included two key items:
- $20M for vehicles for the Streetcar Loop
- About $250M for the bridge for Milwaukie Light Rail
That means that not only are we in good shape for the capital side of our Federal application for the project segment to OMSI, but that we can see a non-too-distant future where a bridge will complete the entire Loop route around the central city.
35 responses to “Sine Die Breathes Life into Streetcar Loop”
Wow, just like that, $270 mil! This is great news for Milwaukie MAX too, a huge chunk of the total bill is tied up in the bridge. How much is MilMAX estimated to cost? And what’s the federal match? And how many OIW streetcars will $20 mil buy?
The service to OMSI will require 9 vehicles. I suspect the $20M will not cover 100% of that (the original ask to the legislature was $25M).
A Possible Experiment?
Rail opponents always claim that buses are cheaper and more effective. Of course, some original data collection and research I’ve been involved in shows that rail attracts 35% to 43% more riders when other conditions are held equal, e.g., speed, frequency, etc. However, this proposition has never been tested directly “in the field”, if you will.
Here’s an experiment I’d like to see Portland try. Shut down the existing Portland Streetcar line for two weeks, and runs substitute buses on the same schedule, which ought to be easy for buses to keep with since the average Streetcar speed is only 7-8 mph. I’d even concede running the buses somewhat more frequently in order to provide the same overall capacity, seated and standing, as the current streetcar schedule. Thus, instead of every 13 minutes, the buses would run every 8-9 minutes. Same fare rules would apply to the buses, e.g., free within Fareless Square. Most current Streetcar stops can readily be used by buses, and those that can’t can be served by temporary bus stops usually within a half block.
Under these circumstances, I seriously doubt that the substitute buses would achieve current reported Streetcar patronage of 10,000 daily boardings. I’d bet substitute bus patronage would be at least 1/3 less than current Streetcar usage, and most likely 50% or less. Of course, if I’m proven correct in my assertions here, I doubt it would silence rail critics like Randal O’Toole and many of the regular posters on this blog.
I think that two weeks would be too short to tell. People who expect the streetcar to be there already will ride the bus for two weeks as a substitute.
It might not attract *new* riders, but I would imagine the ridership would stay about the same.
Now a month might be different.
But I suspect that you might get into trouble with the property owners who’s fee money goes into streetcar operations along the line…
:)
But maybe a “high frequency bus loop” as a test maybe in one of the areas that streetcar is proposed.
Like Broadway or Hawthorne. Make a loop where busses run every 5 or 7 minutes around the loop to designated stops.
See what the ridership is there.
But then again, this has not much to do with the Corruthers bridge…
Michael –
Your suggestion is an interesting idea, although coming up with the political will and the money to perform it might be a big problem… perhaps a university could apply for a grant from somewhere to fund such a study?
Your experiment could be carried out with articulated “BRT”-style buses such as those used in Eugene, which have boarding doors on either side of the vehicle. That way, all streetcar stops could be served, and the frequencies could be similar.
Where such buses could be acquired for a couple of weeks, I don’t know… a deal would probably have to be reached with New Flyer (the manufacturer) and a city with an order for new buses, to allow the “break in” to happen here for such an experiment.
I view headways/frequency to be a critical part of what determines ridership on a system such as the current streetcar alignment which fulfills (among other things) a circulator role.
The Portland Streetcar has often been hit with the criticism that walking is faster, but this is actually untrue unless you are only going one or two stations and are a fast walker. However, if you’ve just missed a streetcar and the next one isn’t for 12 or more minutes, a person can walk a considerable distance in that time.
If streetcar loop headways can be brought down to 10 minutes ore less, I think ridership will jump more than just the proportion of service offered by the additional vehicles.
– Bob R.
Do you all know if the Milwaukie line going to run LRVs or Streetcars?
The Milwaukie project that is now in the EIS phase is a Light Rail project.
The bridge itself will carry both types of vehicles: the Milwaukie LRT vehicles and Streetcars completing the southern end of the central city Loop route.
Chris –
Has a decision been made on whether the Caruthers bridge will be constructed capable of carrying other transit vehicles (buses) as well as bikes/peds?
I view bus access as important for service flexibility and improving bus travel times on some existing or future routes, but also access for rubber-tired emergency vehicles could prove critical in the future.
This will be our first new bridge in a few decades and will be built to superior seismic standards… after a severe earthquake it will be vital that emergency vehicles can readily access both sides of the river.
– Bob R.
The $250 million is great news for the Milwaukie MAX line, that’s got to be a pretty significant chunk of what the local government will have to come up with to build the project. Details about the Milwaukie line are nonexistent on Trimet’s page, I imagine this chukn of money makes it a sure thing if it wasn’t already.
Bob R:
I recently tested the Streetcar by walking from NW 11th and Johnson to NW 11th and Alder. I kept an eye on the “arrival times” boards at each stop, I lost 1 or two minutes on the streetcar in walking four stops (and I’m not a particularly speedy walker).
I’m sure Streetcar is much faster from NW 23rd to SW Alder, but with mid-day traffic downtown and the number of stops on 10th/11th I’m pretty sure most people would be better served walking that section unless Streetcar was due to arrive in a couple of minutes.
Has a decision been made on whether the Caruthers bridge will be constructed capable of carrying other transit vehicles (buses) as well as bikes/peds?
I have heard bikes/peds discussed. Not sure about buses. Has someone out there been going to those meetings?
Yes, buses are part of the bridge study and could be added if they provide travel time savings for transit riders by using the new bridge, assuming that it doesnt add too much to the cost of the project. The total project cost is about $880M in 2013 dollars. With the $250M we still have to raise about $100M of local match.
A Possible Experiment?
Not only has it been done once (not for an experiment, but because the Streetcar line was shut down due to a request from the Portland Fire Bureau that was battling a structure fire too close to the overhead wire), but Seattle is doing it right now with the 99-Waterfront Streetcar line.
However King County Metro did allow the “bustitution” to be fareless, whereas the Streetcar always required a fare, even though it was entirely within the fareless zone.
Brian –
Thanks for the update about the bridge. If there’s an official channel for me to relay my comments about emergency vehicles and buses, please let me know.
– Bob R.
Brian –
What about opening the Caruthers bridge to private cars with electronic tolling? Charge a (relatively) steep toll for cars to use the bus/rail lanes. Put the toll high enough that traffic volumes won’t get very high (essentially, it becomes a low-traffic shortcut for the well-heeled), and the bridge could help generate its own construction and maintenance revenue.
At very least, it should pay for paving the lanes to support buses and emergency vehicles.
djk –
Do you think that anyone would pay a significant toll to cross the Willamette, given the numerous free options currently available?
I know that the Fremont and Marquam can frequently back up, but that is due to freeway issues. The Caruthers crossing would be purely local and in the vicinity of the Ross Island Bridge. Given the very short distances involved, I’m not sure if tolling would produce revenues sufficient to make it worth the effort.
Transit, however, is in need of a river crossing where transit vehicles can zip across the river without delay.
– Bob R.
My assumption is that most people wouldn’t pay it. That keeps traffic volumes down. As for producing revenue worth the effort … that’s why we should look at it. If the new bridge creates a direct path from the east side (say, easy access to/from McLoughlin and Division) into South Waterfront, then once South Waterfront is built out, I can see a fair number of people paying a couple of bucks to avoid the rather circuitous path in through the Ross Island or Hawthorne Bridge.
As for cost, automating the whole process would keep the operating costs very, very low. And all required technology would be off-the-shelf.
The service to OMSI will require 9 vehicles. I suspect the $20M will not cover 100% of that (the original ask to the legislature was $25M).
Under current prices 9 cars would exceed20 million easily. You had stated that the prices wouldn’t decrease (which I think is insane personally).
Has something changed in the pricing? I still want to know what happened to the other $400,000 dollars that disappeared from that earmark for OIW too, any idea what happened to that?
I am sure that no pricing has yet been set. There will need to be an RFP and a procurement process of some kind (those are market forces, right?). I’m simply suggesting that since the original ask to the legislature was for $25M, $20M is probably not going to cover the full expense.
As for the $400K, I don’t know for sure, but I suspect it is eaten up by things like the Federally required procurement process along with inspection costs – with the Czech vehicles we had inspectors on-site most of the time, I would expect to have inspection costs related to the local cars as well.
Erik:
Do you know the current ridership on the “Waterfront Bus” in Seattle?
Has a decision been made on whether the Caruthers bridge will be constructed capable of carrying other transit vehicles (buses)…
I hope so. IMO, it wouldn’t make any sense to build a bridge exclusively for light rail (MAX and PS) and leave buses stuck in traffic on the Ross Island and Hawthorne Bridges.
This will be our first new bridge in a few decades and will be built to superior seismic standards…
Uh, ahem… http://sellwoodbridge.org/ProjectLibrary/EvaluationFrameworkMemo_adopted_01.29.07.pdf
The wordy statements on page 9 under the “Seismic” heading mean that Phase II earthquake standards are still an option that’s on the table.
I’ve also asked what’s the chance that somewhere along the line the Sellwood Bridge might be an alternate Milwaukie MAX alignment. So far, the answer I’ve been given is no, its a different alignment. (How many times have we heard this before?)
after a severe earthquake it will be vital that emergency vehicles can readily access both sides of the river.
What about opening the Caruthers bridge to private cars with electronic tolling?
The emergency vehicle access aspect is the best reason why private vehicles shouldn’t be allowed on Caruthers (IMO), although I think there should be an exception that if the other Willamette River bridges are unusable after a natural disaster and the Caruthers is the first that clears the post-disaster inspection, only then would they be allowed (however, the preferred method of crossing the river should be any operating transit).
In regards to normal, everyday use: on traffic reports now, the main cause of traffic tie-ups (other than traffic itself) seem to be private vehicle crashes. Do we really want that holding up 2 types of transit any more than it already does?
No, but I don’t know what the ridership on the Streetcar was either.
I think it would have been better for the Oregon Legislature to commit some funding to inter-city bus travel in Oregon. This would allow tourists to take their bicycles with them and leave their cars at home. There are a lot of deatinations in Oregon that I bet a large number of people would travel to–without cars–if there was a way.
What is the latest cost estimate to get MAX to Milwaukie? And what will it cost to get it to Oregon City? I bet a lot.
So what will be the method to pay for this? How many new taxes will we need? Just wait and see how many new charges, taxes and fees local governments will invent to pay for their end of this project.
My preference is to make the Caruthers a full arterial bridge and tear down the Marquam and the Eastbank freeway to I-84.
Connect the new bridge to Grand/MLK at the east end and Naito on the west. Thru freeway traffic can us i-405…maybe widened to three thru lanes.
I’d like to second Lenny’s proposal. This is the best idea yet. Get rid of that freakin’ Marquam Bridge eyesore/blight, and replace it with a new arterial bridge that includes light rail, 2 lanes of traffic in each direction, dedicated bus lanes, dedicated pedestrian facilities and dedicated bicycle facilities.
If something has to give due to excessive width, let it be only one lane of auto traffic in each direction.
If there’s not enough money, add a toll for single-occupant autos.
^^^ I third that. Excellent idea, falls in line with some of the previous main topics about undergrounding or eliminating the east side freeway & opening up the east bank for development. Although… what happens to the rail main line? Underground it?
Have they considered a tunnel to replace the “unsightly” Marquam Bridge and serve the MAX/Streetcar as well? It seems a tunnel would be a good option to take care of the NIMBY concerns and make South and North Waterfront connect a little better.
Get rid of that freakin’ Marquam Bridge eyesore/blight
Yes, I have absolutely no problem with a local improvement district being formed that covers SoWA, Downtown and the Eastside Industrial Area, to fully fund and build a replacement for the Marquam Bridge.
There is zero reason why the federal/state taxpayers should foot the bill for a bridge that is perfectly functional but that certain downtown groups don’t like the looks of, so if every property owner within a one mile radius wants to tax themselves (above and beyond existing property taxes) to pay for it, I say “go for it!” Let’s see, tax for Streetcar, tax for MAX, tax for “replacing ugly bridges”, urban renewal tax, Metro tax, TriMet tax, Zoo tax, Portland tax, Multnomah County tax…before long the effective annual tax rate should be around 40%.
Ditto to Erik H.
One has to look at the vested interests that are pushing all of these high rollin’, excessive- cost schemes: Tri Met employees, construction companies, construction unions, aspiring politicos, waterfront property owners, transportation planning consultants.
But the taxes will be non-discriminatory….
We could have a mass transit, bicycle infrastructure and highway system that works for about 1.5 billion. But this
overall scheme–proliferating MAX trains, new bridges, remove other bridges, bury freeways–will cost 15 billion or more. And it won’t be known if even that will solve our problems.
the property owners who’s fee money goes into streetcar operations along the line…
There is no property owner fee money paying for streetcar operations along the line that I know of. Care to enlighten?
And speaking of streetcars…does anyone here know why Tri-Met has to date not paid their $161,000+ assessment for the tram? The land in question that was assessed is the land that’s west of SW Moody along the streetcar route into South Waterfront. (And, yes, the streetcar land was assessed for the tram as a “benefitted” property…)
The interest rate is a punative 12%…and we’ve (that is, the City has) already added several thousand dollars in penalties for this overdue payment.
Or…is Portland Streetcar Inc on the hook for paying this assessment, regardless of the fact it’s on Tri-Met owned property?
the property owners who’s fee money goes into streetcar operations along the line…
There is no property owner fee money paying for streetcar operations along the line that I know of. Care to enlighten?
And speaking of streetcars…does anyone here know why Tri-Met has to date not paid their $161,000+ assessment for the tram? The land in question that was assessed is the land that’s west of SW Moody along the streetcar route into South Waterfront. (And, yes, the streetcar land was assessed for the tram as a “benefitted” property…)
The interest rate is a punative 12%…and we’ve (that is, the City has) already added several thousand dollars in penalties for this overdue payment.
Or…is Portland Streetcar Inc on the hook for paying this assessment, regardless of the fact it’s on Tri-Met owned property?
And just for the record…the reason my last comment was posted twice is that I got an error message the first time I posted it that there was a “server error.” I HATE double postings…but I had no reason to think my first post made it to the server.
Anyway…we DO need to figure out who is paying the tram assessment on the streetcar line (though, interestingly enough, the tram wasn’t assessed for the streetcar extension that brings people to it…talk about the tail wagging the dog, eh?).
Frank,
I don’t know the status of the assessment for the Tram, but it’s a little unfair to put the blame solely on TriMet. According to this page, the right of way is owned by:
Chris,
That’s helpful, Chris. Multnomah County Assessment & Taxation shows the ownership of this particular strip of land being assessed as Tri-Met’s. Sounds like the ownership might be more complicated. We’ve a similar issue with some ODOT properties –currently $129,329 in assessments– which are being contested by the state.
These are the kind of issues you want to have resolved before you go to assessment, after which interest and penalty charges keep ratcheting up.
Multnomah County Assessment & Taxation shows the ownership of this particular strip of land being assessed as Tri-Met’s. Sounds like the ownership might be more complicated. We’ve a similar issue with some ODOT properties –currently $129,329 in assessments– which are being contested by the state.
Why is ODOT, a government agency, being assessed a property tax to build the Streetcar?
I would assume that all TriMet property is assessed county property tax, right? And that all Metro property is assessed city property tax? And do motor vehicles employed by Portland Streetcar operations pay motor fuels tax?
Why is ODOT, a government agency, being assessed a property tax to build the Streetcar?
It’s not a property tax but an assessment for properties that, presumptively, benefit from the tram. City-owned property is assessed as well.
Government-owned properties are not assessed property taxes by Multnomah County, however.
I don’t know anything about motor fuel taxes.