We're not going to get a responsible plan since both the anti-freeway/pro-transit and anti-transit/pro-freeway groups have gotten so involved. All that we can do is head down a path of divisiveness and screaming rather than find a solution to a significant problem in the metro area.

It seems that anything that can be politicized will, and that there's nothing left of middle ground anymore.

Is there any room around here for somebody that's pro-transit but also wants a big new bridge?

[Moderator: Commenter's last name reduced to initial in this thread per commenter's request.]

Why not just build a simple bridge to solve today's problem cheap enough to not require tolls?

NoBridgeTolls.com

Gas tax dollars come from motor vehicle users. What is irresponsible about the current CRC Locally Preferred Alternative is that, at least so far, no financial contributions are coming from the bicycling community and from transit fares even though planning is being done to accommodate those modes on the crossing. Therefore it is not your dollars (meaning bicyclist and transit rider dollars) that are funding the project. If bicyclists and transit advocates want something different, then it is about time they open up their own wallets and pay to play with a bicycle tax and increased transit fares.

ODOT and WASDOT are the wrong agencies for this project. It should be given to the area's MPOs...Metro and RTC in Vancouver. DOTs have destroyed enough urban fabric in the last 50 plus years.

DOTs have destroyed enough urban fabric in the last 50 plus years.
And Metro has destroyed enough jobs, road capacity and our general standard of living by mkaing housing un affordable.
Not to mention wasting BILLIONS on toy trains.

Thanks
JK

JK,
Please cite any example of built road capacity "destroyed" by Metro.
Thanks.

Unit Says:
JK,
Please cite any example of built road capacity "destroyed" by Metro.
JK: Interstate Ave toy train
hwy 217 neglected while they encourages the WES, which everyone agree is a complete waste.
Encouraged wasting 2 BILLION on toy trains, enough to actually solve the congestion problem.

They want Milwauke toy train for a BILLION while they can't find $100 mil for the selwood bridge.

hwy 217 neglected

Aren't they working on a widening project for 217 right now? Adding auxiliary lanes and ramp improvements? Is modernizing a freeway really neglecting it?

Dave H Says:
hwy 217 neglected

Aren't they working on a widening project for 217 right now? Adding auxiliary lanes and ramp improvements? Is modernizing a freeway really neglecting it?
JK: It needs widening for most of its length. My impression of the current project is just a short section at the North end.

Thanks
JK

It needs widening for most of its length. My impression of the current project is just a short section at the North end.

Fine, but that's not what neglect means. Neglect would be not funding improvements, whereas this is a fairly expensive project to improve automobile mobility. It also serves absolutely no purpose to transit to widen that stretch (there's no TriMet service on it), so it's obviously not a handout for transit.

$35 million isn't neglect unless you're changing the definition of it.

jimkarlock Says:
August 21, 2009 5:05 AM
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Dude! Get some sleep! :-)

They are widening 217 Northbound from Canyon/BH to the Sunset at a cost of $42 million. see: http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION1/hwy217/ for more information

It has had fairly incremental improvements over the last ten years including the addition of auxilary lanes along its entire course, a massive redevelopment at its southern terminus and now a major redesign of its northern terminus. I believe the plan is to steadily modernize it.

One of the biggest problems with 217 is that in many ways it serves as an arterial street for local traffic. A lot of people will only travel on the FWY for one or two exits. For example, get on at Pacific Hwy (99W) and get off at Greenburg or on at Denny off at Allen.

The other problem is that it has way too many exits. The freeway is only 7 miles long and yet has 9 exits! Washington Square along has 3. If you really wanted to modernize the freeway you'd have to remove some of those exits.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OR_217 for specifics on the exits.

Dude! Get some sleep! :-)

LOL!LOL!LOL!!!!

Hey, he's a night owl.

Don't ya know that the best time to think is when the rest of the world is asleep?

JK:

A lot of people find that using terms like "toy trains" a bit less than intellectually honest, especially since they make arguing with you hinge on starting off accepting a major premise that both sides disagree on. Your websites seem to paint you as being a reasonable guy that just cares about the facts, but you must admit that calling light rail "crime rail" or "toy trains" seems to suggest somebody with an axe to grind?

Aaron G. Says: A lot of people find that using terms like "toy trains" a bit less than intellectually honest,
JK: It is just a descriptive term (G). A toy is something that rally has no functional purpose, costs too much ad does too little. That is light rail. (Its real purpose is as an excuse to shovel money at developers to build high density at taxpayer expense.)

Aaron G. Says: . . . but you must admit that calling light rail "crime rail" or "toy trains" seems to suggest somebody with an axe to grind?
JK: I don’t think I called it “crime rail”. You might want to check clarkblog.org or otrem.org. (But I may have picked up their term somewhere in something that I did.) In any case I do not claim creation of the “crime rail” term, but I may be the originator of “toy train” in this context. While we are on the subject of originating terms, the term. “loot rail” appears to be from clarkblog.org

Thanks
JK

So something that people board about 107,400 times a weekday "has no functional purpose"?

The "toy trains" shtick gets old quickly--though as a father of preschool-age children, I'm waiting for an anti-rail person to refer to Mayor Adams, Fred Hansen, or some other local authority as "Sir Topham Hatt". (For the uninitiated, he's the rotund, tophat-wearing, tea-sipping railway director in the Thomas the Tank Engine franchise, who defends the railways from the encroachment of things like motor vehicles and diesel-powered locomotives).

My all-time favorite transit putdown comes from our friends up I-5, who lovingly refer to the South Lake Union Streetcar as the South Lake Union Trolley... the acronym, and numerous puns based thereon, are left as an exercise for the reader.

... the acronym, and numerous puns based thereon, are left as an exercise for the reader.

It actually doesn't take all that much exercise to be a...

(ahem) (cough)

Nevermind.

And of course, so anyone doesn't misunderstand, the end of my sentence could be "frequent transit rider" or "land-use planning appreciator". :-)

South Lake Union Trolley... the acronym, and numerous puns based thereon, are left as an exercise for the reader.

I almost bought the "I rode the ..." t-shirt last time I was in Seattle. I'll admit, I laughed at it.

I think it's Santa Clara that has a transit system named SCAT, which birders and naturalists find quite amusing.

And then, there's the former name of Skagit Transit in Skagit County, Washington...
http://busdude.com/SKAT/SKAT_993_1.jpg

I wonder how in the world anyone thought that was a good idea in the first place. It would be sorta like if instead of TriMet, back in 1969 someone thought of the name "Portland Intercity Transit," with the acronym "P-IT"

Actually, I think that acronym has come up in Salem, due to which I believe the names "Salem-Keizer Transit" or one for some transportation plan were not chosen.

Highways are designed for vehicles to move, but not for to park during terrible traffic.
In 2008 Americans spent 4.2 billion hours a year stuck in traffic.
Very heavy traffic congestion cost Americans motorists $72 billion a year in wasted time plus fuel cost.
Failure to relieve traffic congestion in the Portland region's transportation system will cost the region 6,500 jobs and $844 million by 2025.
Till today the research and planning of CRC cost $65 million and going to spend about $40 millions more and will cost at least $4.1 billion.

Study to improve HWY 217 cost many millions dollars and will cost $600 million.

Where from these $4.7 billions will come from?
Our country is bankropt, has no money. Borrow from China? Raise taxes? But there is no need too much brain to rob the people and businesses.

I'm an Inventor, Innovator, a Problem Solver and have a plan for drastically improve, relieve heavy traffic on all Oregon Metro and all US Highways, and it will cost to taxpayers almost nothing. And do this relieve, ease congestion right now, in a few days, but I have no authority to do it.
The Director of the ODOT Garrett ignored my help, and has no own brain to improve traffic.
So, on 09/10/09 I'm going to speak up before the Oregon Metro Council and give my Offer / Business Proposal.
Or wait till I will be elected as US Senator.

Pavel Goberman - Candidate for US Senator
(503) 6 GET FIT (against Wyden)
www.getenergized.com/vote.html
allbefit@aol.com