We are testing one up here, called the ORCA Card. I am not participating in it, mainly because of the few routes Metro has put in the Beta Test, I do not ride them often. Sound Transit, Pierce Transit, King County Metro, Community Transit, Kitsap Transit, Washington State Ferries, and I believe Everett Transit are all participating in it. I have seen the readers for it, as sometimes a bus equipped for the test filters down onto my neighborhood route.

Back when the Octopus card was first mentioned, I questioned the near-term need and the feasibility of such a system.

But, the Octopus card would be superior to the Montreal system.

The Montreal system relies on barriers (turnstiles) -- because the card stays in a person's wallet or purse, it is necessary to have some kind of barrier (more than just a "beep") so that the user has positive indication that their card has been read and that their fare has been paid.

The Octopus card incorporates a small LCD-style display which shows data about the most recent use and the balance remaining. This provides a visual cue not only to passengers but to fare inspectors.

One important issue with Smart Cards which in my opinion still needs to be fully addressed by the industry is the issue of privacy and data security. RFID (radio-frequency ID)-based smart card designs have been compromised in the past, allowing hackers to do minor things such as tracking who passed a certain reader when, to actual capture/cloning of funds.

- Bob R.

I urge you to check out my blog post on this very topic, here:

http://undergroundscience.blogspot.com/2006/12/regional-transit-smart-card-for_05.html

Basically, while this sounds good in theory, in practice, money spent on fare collection is money not spent on actually constructing, operating or maintaining a transit system.

I believe that Tri-Met's current policy on this -- "We're letting other regions take the lead on this issue, and we'll evaluate the results when they've implemented something and operated it long enough to be evaluated" (otherwise known as "wait-and-see") -- is the wisest course of action.

A smart card will not come free, nor cheaply. While, in principle, it would be a nice and elegant way to integrate fare collection across Tri-Met, Portland Streetcar, the tram, C-Trans, and maybe even Amtrak Cascades, the parking meters, the taxis, and your local coffee shop, in practice I just don't really think the verdict is in that it's worth the cost.

There are probably a lot more cost-effective uses for this funding, wherever it might come from.

After all, what exactly is the problem that is hoped to be solved, and where on the menu of possible solutions to this problem does a regional smart card fit?

Ultimately I think a Smart Card is the way to go - especially as we see more individual transit districts and modes of transport - whether it be toll roads/toll bridges, C-Tran, TriMet (bus), MAX, Streetcar, Tram, SMART, etc.; the cards could also be used for downtown metered and garage parking.

Many transit agencies are doing away with transfers; the smart card would also facilitate a transfer component; or there could be a true system of "pay as you go" - the more you use transit the more that you pay; someone who is a short hopper pays less. Likewise, express busses and local busses could have different fare structures as well..

Confusing? Sure. But it works in many other cities; most people don't use most transit - they use just a few routes in their area.

From an "environmental" perspective, the mounds of transfers and expired monthly/weekly/day passes would be eliminated, and that is a cost TriMet would no longer have to bear. Everyone who has a Smart Card could pay a simple $5.00 fee for the card, and it's reloaded as often as one likes.

Of course those who wish to pay cash/coin can still do so - but for a single ride.

However I agree with this sentiment: money spent on fare collection is money not spent on actually constructing, operating or maintaining a transit system. We need to fully develop a reliable transit network - just getting the busses on the road - before we talk about fare collection.

The most frequent comment I get from people who recognize me as someone involved in transportation policy is complaints about how unreliable and difficult to use the fare machines for both MAX and Streetcar are. It's a barrier to usage of the system.

My understanding is that TriMet made the strategic choice to invest in AVL (automatic vehicle location, i.e. Transit Tracker) instead of smart cards.

I don't object to that choice (I think the AVL technology is great), but I hope TriMet gets around to address the far issue after the see what works for other folks.

I thought a dollar bill worked everywhere...the original smart card.

One important issue with Smart Cards which in my opinion still needs to be fully addressed by the industry is the issue of privacy and data security. RFID (radio-frequency ID)-based smart card designs have been compromised in the past, allowing hackers to do minor things such as tracking who passed a certain reader when, to actual capture/cloning of funds.
AMEN! The other privacy issue here is the idea of cards for everything - ID, groceries, calling cards, prepaid phone cards, bank cards - I could name it, a card already exists for it. It's one step away from this whole 'National ID Card/National Database' garbage, with no privacy whatsoever. NOT willing to give up my civil liberties for this.

But, that discussion is for another place.

I thought a dollar bill worked everywhere...the original smart card.
::Thumbs up::

Hey, I agree with you guys. In principle, a smart card would be great. You tag it, you ride. No fumbling for change, no trying to get the dang bill reader to read the bill with the crumply middle and corner missing, just tag and go.

All I'm saying is, at what cost?

I think the wait-and-see approach is extremely wise at this point in time. One of the two international consultants that provides smart cards, Motorola, is getting out of the business as fast as the courts will let them. That leaves exactly one company willing to provide that service, at last count.

What price point do you think they might find reasonable to charge?

Anything they want?

Yeah, that's probably about right.

Might be a good idea to see if the market provides a few more alternatives, before blindly jumping on the hype bandwagon... I'd give it another five years or so.

Then, we can talk tag-and-go.

In the meantime, let's save our $78 million (or however much, in that range, it might cost to implement such a system here) and spend it on other improvements that could make the riding experience better.

Guaranteed timed transfers at more regional transfer points, perhaps?

For further reading on this topic, see this TRB report:

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/tcrp/tcrp_rpt_115.pdf

An interesting point that it makes, is that eventually all e-cards will comply with the "ISO/IEC 14443 specification". Technically, this means that you will be able to go anywhere in the world, and use your same smart card/phone to tag in (and out) of transit systems everywhere.

So yeah, at some point Portland/Tri-Met, etc. will want to get with the program, and adopt a system that meets this standard.

I'm just arguing that we're not yest at this point. It's too early in the game. Let the big players with all the money to blow spend their wad sorting out all the issues now, and when the product is a little more standardized in practice, and cheaper/easier to implement, then go for it.

Reasonable enough, right?

As for someone with some RFID experience, I agree with Garlynn, lets let everyone else QC this opportunity. I think it will work but now is not the time.

I definitley agree with the sentiment of "wait and see".

With MAX and Streetcar, PDXs transit platforms are largely open-air. TriMet would need to spend a whole lot of to create a fully gated system... So in concept the Smartcard idea has merit.

However, I say let TriMet evaluate the issue in a couple years.... Wait until ridership is high and the transit system is further along before investing in Smartcard technology.

They work best when a metro system does not use the honor system, meaning you swipe, the turnstile lets you pass. There's just no point to that on MAX.

As far as making payment easy. You still have to figure out the stupid machines to add money to the smart card. And as a previous user of just such a system, let me tell you that those machines can be just as stupid as any of ours. Why not just make our ticketing machines easy?

I must say though it makes a lot of sense for busses to just tap and go rather than fumbling with bills and change. But then again, if we had more people using monthly passes the result would be the same. We could even create weekly passes or all kinds of passes and pre-paid tickets that people could buy at ticketing machines and convenience stores.

There's just no reason for our region to go all high-tech, when low-tech could give the same result.

We could even create weekly passes or all kinds of passes and pre-paid tickets that people could buy at ticketing machines and convenience stores.

Many transit agencies (including Cherriots and C-Tran) are going this route, and I could see TriMet doing the same with or without a Smart Card.

Essentially you have two choices:

1. You pay per boarding. No such thing as a transfer; you pay and you board. You get off the bus/train, you pay again to ride again.

2. You pay (double? 2.5 times?) for a daily pass; you can also buy weekend passes (generally at a reduced rate compared to Mon-Fri rates), 7 day passes, monthly passes.

Another thing I could see is the elimination of transfers as we know it today; instead making transfers "on demand" only, and good for only 30 minutes - basically just enough time to catch your next ride.

One of our local systems did abolish transfers in the wake of I-695. That was Kitsap Transit, but as soon as voters approved a sales tax hike to replace the MVET revenue, the transfers were back. KT is geared towards serving two constituencies, Naval Base Kitsap, and Cross-Sound Ferry Commuters. KT also hiked fares to $2, but then cut them 50% after the tax hike went into effect.

Too bad buses cannot do what WSF is doing for toll collection. They are now selling tickets on the Internet as part of Wave2Go.(Different from ORCA), which gives commuters several options.

Also, Skagit Transit, when they went from Fare-Free to Fares in the wake of I-695, they used pre-paid cards, but they claimed they were not getting much use out of them, so they have gone to the more traditional fare collection system. Well, I think they would have caught on if they had made the cards more available then at just a few stores.

As for ORCA, it is the culmination of fare rationalization that has been going on since 1998. First the PugetPass which replaced 300 different passes with a few that were valid on all member ST systems, plus WSF Ship to Shore Passes. Then came the transfer policy that allowed one system's transfer to be used as base fare on another system. Although ST is considering throwing a monkey-wrench into it with the long overdue fare overhaul for SOUNDER. Instead of Zonal-fares, they want to go to a Distance-Based fare system. Then again, ORCA would probably be able to be programmed to recognize the difference between that and ST Express Bus Fares, which will most likely stay Zonal.